Proselytizing Pilot

[JS]

Originally posted by Garfield1966:

Ok now for JS. You are racist pig. To condemn an entire group of people of the actions of a few is beyond stupid. By your twisted logic, all Catholics are evil do to the actions of a few deviant priest. All people are bad since a few are bad … how far do you want to take your statement.

Most Catholics condemn the actions of those priests. Go visit a Muslim country (if you can get in) and see how many people condemn the actions of 19 people two+ years ago.

Sure, there are a lot of Muslims in the world who don't agree with Osama bin Laden's version of Islam, but the fact of the matter is that the number of people who support Osama bin Laden and terrorism in general is far, far more than the number of people who support "Christian" weirdos such as David Koresh.

David Koresh couldn't even get out of his own house, and he had machine guns! Muslim terrorists kill people almost every day, and it shows no signs of slowing down.

All Americans are definitely evil for numerous reasons such as interring American citizens during WWII since they “lookedâ€￾ like the enemy, we stole the land from the native Americans and then tried to extinguish their heritage, we imported slaves by the tens of thousands, raped them of their heritage, sold them like meat, and threw them out like yesterdays garbage. We have supported despots and dictators through out the world. Would you like me to continue? Yes? Good … Let’s see. There is Divine destiny (that is Christianity at its most arrogant.). There were the crusades. There were the Romans who hated the Christians and fed them to the lions for sport. There was the Spanish inquisition. OH Yea, almost forgot the witch trials. There was the time the Spaniards wiped out the Incas. So, do these actions make ALL Americans, Spaniards, Romans, Christians … bad?

These are not current events, thus not revelant.

I took an Arab history class in college way back when and part of the class involved studying the religion. The religion is peaceful, or at least as peaceful as any other religion / cult.

Yes, and ...

It’s the people who can twist and pervert it.

BINGO!!! And we are talking about a lot more than 100 David Koresh followers, we are talking about millions of people who want to see every American DEAD!

 

[TWAnr]

From the The Pitt News:

OPINIONS
Raise your hand if you are a "crazy" pilot
EDITORIAL

February 10, 2004

On Friday, passengers on an American Airlines flight from Los Angeles to New York experienced a moment of terror during the in-flight announcements.
The pilot requested that the Christians on the flight raise their hands. He then said, "everyone who doesn't have their hand raised is crazy," according to a woman who was aboard the flight. He told the non-Christians to talk to the Christians about their faith, and said he would be available after the flight for discussion. He also said that reading a book or watching the movie would be a waste of time, and that discussing Christianity would be "worthwhile."

The comments proved so unsettling that several passengers attempted to call loved ones from their cell phones, perhaps fearing that some religious fundamentalist had hijacked the plane and that disaster was imminent.

A spokesman for American Airlines said the incident was being investigated. The pilot should be severely disciplined, if not fired, for his inappropriate and ill-timed comments.

A ride on a commercial airline flight is a business transaction, not an opportunity for proselytizing. The pilot really shouldn't say much more than the barest facts: estimated flight time and maybe the expected weather in the arrival city. Anything more personal is simply inappropriate.

Far more troubling, however, is that this little stunt occurred aboard an airplane, in an enclosed space with a captive audience. Didn't the pilot have any notion that such odd and loaded language might invoke images of other flights in passengers' minds? The terrible events of Sept. 11, 2001, are seared in the minds of every American and most citizens of the world. People are understandably nervous.

Add to that fear that many people are terrified of flying, regardless of the circumstances. For someone who is already breathing in a bag, being asked to consider the state of their eternal soul would clearly be too much to handle.

Consider if the pilot's statements had been a little different: "Raise your hand if you are Muslim. Everyone who doesn't have their hand raised is crazy." He'd be imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay faster than you can say USA PATRIOT Act.

Whether an innocent attempt to share his religious beliefs with his passengers or an arrogant abuse of a microphone, this pilot clearly has issues of mental competency to be considered in evaluating his future with American Airlines.

The Pitt News

 

[JS]

From above article:

Consider if the pilot's statements had been a little different: "Raise your hand if you are Muslim. Everyone who doesn't have their hand raised is crazy." He'd be imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay faster than you can say USA PATRIOT Act.

Something to consider -- has anyone ever heard a Muslim, Jew or Hindu try to convert someone to their religion?

Why is it that only Christians try to convert others?

 

[mweiss]

Most Catholics condemn the actions of those priests. Go visit a Muslim country (if you can get in) and see how many people condemn the actions of 19 people two+ years ago.

Interesting you suggest that. I take it from your words that you haven't. Neither have I, but I have talked to people who have, and they said that most of those they talked to in the Muslim countries they visited condemned those actions.

but the fact of the matter is that the number of people who support Osama bin Laden and terrorism in general is far, far more than the number of people who support "Christian" weirdos such as David Koresh.

Oh, really? Aside from those whose governments do not permit any competing views (and, thus, are necessarily misinformed), who would they be?

Muslim terrorists kill people almost every day, and it shows no signs of slowing down.

Ahh, here we're getting to the meat of your opinion. The issue is that most of these aren't "Muslim terrorists," but rather "terrorists, who happen to be Muslim." Allow me to elaborate. Most of the incidents we hear about on the news are either in Israel, where these people are fighting for the land, not their religion. The others we hear about are in Iraq, where these people are fighting for the land (or, more precisely, for their independence), not their religion.

And what about Afghanistan? Might that be the same country where the US government chose to provide substantial support to a Muslim weirdo named Osama bin Laden, to help him take over the country? Imagine if the same thing happened here...imagine if Falwell got the kind of backing that bin Laden got. Imagine what this country would look like. Apparently, that would make Christians dangerous people, by your logic.

And, finally,

...we are talking about a lot more than 100 David Koresh followers, we are talking about millions of people who want to see every American DEAD!

Really? Where are these millions?

 

[LiveInAHotel]

A new forum for US Aviation... "Religion and the workplace!"

 

[mga707]

Ok now for JS. You are racist pig.

Oh, just stop it. This is so annoying, but typical.

JS is condemning a particular RELIGION, not a race. He said nothing about race at all. FYI, a Moslem can be Caucasian (Albanian, for instance), Negroid (Sub-saharan Africa), or Mongoloid (Indonesian).

I just get so sick of you hand-wringing, bleeding heart, ultra-politically-correct types throwing the "Racist" epithet out at anyone you disagree with. It is without a doubt one of the most overused and wrongly-used terms out there.

So, go ahead and keep on self-loathing, you capitalist white male western American oppressor of all other cultures. Yes, you're evil and deserve anything that the oppressed people of the world throw your way. Just count me out... <_<

 

[Garfield1966]

Ok now for JS. You are racist pig.

Oh, just stop it. This is so annoying, but typical.

JS is condemning a particular RELIGION, not a race. He said nothing about race at all. FYI, a Moslem can be Caucasian (Albanian, for instance), Negroid (Sub-saharan Africa), or Mongoloid (Indonesian).

I just get so sick of you hand-wringing, bleeding heart, ultra-politically-correct types throwing the "Racist" epithet out at anyone you disagree with. It is without a doubt one of the most overused and wrongly-used terms out there.

So, go ahead and keep on self-loathing, you capitalist white male western American oppressor of all other cultures. Yes, you're evil and deserve anything that the oppressed people of the world throw your way. Just count me out... <_<

OH my. Wrong word, so soooorrrryyyy. He is an ignorant bigot or how about just a ignorant moron? Do you feel better now?

Condemning an entire religion is OK then? One cannot and should not condemn an entire religion for the actions of a few. As if his crap does not stink.

 

[Garfield1966]

OH, and JS. History is always relevant. Something about learning from it or being condemned to repeat it comes to mind.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

.....the pilot speaks:


God and the American Airlines pilot

In an exclusive interview with Advocate.com, Capt. Roger Findiesen explains how God told him to preach to his passengers about Christianity on a Friday morning flight from Los Angeles to New York on February 6.


"If you have five minutes, I'll tell you why I did it," American Airlines captain Roger Findiesen told Advocate.com as Flight 34 had all but emptied out after its arrival at New York's JFK Airport, on Friday, February 6. "I felt that God was telling me to say something [to the passengers]."

Findiesen is the pilot about whom CNN and other media have been reporting since Saturday; even The New York Times ran a story about how an American Airlines pilot, using the P.A. system before takeoff from Los Angeles International Airport on Friday morning, requested that Christians on his flight identify themselves.

As the plane sat immobile, waiting for its slot to take off, Findiesen asked Christian passengers to raise their hands and said that "everyone else on board" might want to "make good use" of the flight. The implication was that non-Christians should learn about the Christian faith from the passengers who had raised their hands.

Passenger Amanda Nelligan told WCBS-TV of New York that the pilot called non-Christians "crazy" and that his comments "felt like a threat," although other passengers remember the word "crazy" having been playfully applied to the Christians on board. Nelligan said she and several others aboard were so worried they tried to call relatives on their cell phones before flight attendants assured them they were safe and that people on the ground had been notified about the pilot's comments.

Findiesen's identity has been shielded by American Airlines, but the pilot spoke candidly to The Advocate and Advocate.com editor in chief Bruce C. Steele, who identified himself to the captain at the end of the flight. Findiesen then confirmed to Steele his identity, the spelling of his name, and that his home base is Washington, D.C. At no time did Findiesen mention homosexuality or say anything antigay. During the three- to five-minute interview, he was positive and upbeat and interested only in explaining the importance of witnessing about his faith.

What Findiesen said, as best the stunned passengers could recall once they were able to move about the cabin and confer after Flight 34 took off, was this: "I just got back from a mission," Findiesen said after making a routine announcement about the plane being second in line for takeoff. "You know, they say about half of Americans are Christians. I'd just like the Christians on board to raise their hands."

In the suddenly hushed coach section of the airplane, a few nervous passengers raised one hand, most no higher than shoulder level, none above tops of the seats.

"I want everyone else on board to look around at how crazy these people are," the pilot continued, with an intonation suggesting he was using the word "crazy" in a positive, even admiring manner. Evidently addressing the non-Christian passengers, he concluded that they could "make good use of [the flight], or you can read your paper and watch the movie."

The movie on the flight was Under the Tuscan Sun, with Diane Lane and Sandra Oh as Lane's lesbian best friend.

Findiesen did not directly ask Christians to witness, nor did he explicitly ask non-Christians to talk to the people he imagined were raising their hands, but the implication that he hoped such interactions would take place was clear, and he confirmed his desire to foster religious discussion in his interview with Advocate.com.

"I just wanted to give Christians a chance to talk about why they're Christians," he said, standing in the forward galley at the end of the flight as the final passengers departed. "I obviously couldn't go back there and address everyone directly, so I used the P.A.

"I just got back from a mission in Costa Rica," said Findiesen, a tall white man with neatly trimmed thick white hair and a mustache, both lightly peppered with black. "I felt that God was telling me to say something." He went on to explain that he felt God wanted him to witness to the passengers on his first flight upon returning to work for American Airlines after his mission. Despite this feeling, he said, he had decided not to say anything--but then he got another sign from God.

A minor problem with the plane's braking system had developed during final checks before takeoff, he said, a problem that might have grounded the aircraft, on which every seat was taken, in part because another American flight from Los Angeles to New York had been canceled that morning. But after a simple maneuver involving a power source, the braking problem inexplicably "disappeared," Findiesen said, and the plane was cleared for departure, and that's when he knew he had to use the P.A. system to talk about his Christian faith.

Flight attendants were inundated with questions and complaints, and the pilot came back on to the P.A. system a couple of hours into the flight to apologize: Not to the paying passengers, but to the flight attendants. "I'd just like to apologize to the flight attendants" for the remarks he had made before takeoff, he said over the P.A. He said he had heard the crew had "taken a little heat" for his witnessing and that he would be available at the end of the flight to answer any questions or hear any complaints himself.

He then apologized again to the flight attendants and ended his announcement.

Asked by Advocate.com whether he felt he should also have apologized to his passengers, Findiesen paused. "I felt bad for the flight attendants," he said. As for the passengers, he said that he felt making himself available to talk to them as they deplaned was sufficient.

Asked whether it was part of his job as an American Airlines pilot, trusted with the safety of hundreds of passengers, to witness about his faith from the cockpit, he said it was not. But, he asserted, "there's actually no regulation against doing what I did." He also reminded Steele that the plane was not moving at the time of his original announcement.

The case was handed over to the airline's personnel department for an investigation, American Airlines spokesman Tim Wagner said Sunday. "It falls along the lines of a personal level of sharing that may not be appropriate for one of our employees to do while on the job," he said.

Because of privacy issues, there would likely never be any announcement about what kind of punishment or reprimand the pilot may face, Wagner said.

While Findiesen repeated to Steele that he was sorry his fellow crew members had taken heat for his comments, he expressed no regret for having made them and no regret for not having apologized to the American Airlines customers he was serving on the flight. But, he added, "I won't do it again, if you want to make a big deal of it."

 

[kirkpatrick]

A minor problem with the plane's braking system had developed during final checks before takeoff, he said, a problem that might have grounded the aircraft...But after a simple maneuver involving a power source, the braking problem inexplicably "disappeared," Findiesen said, and the plane was cleared for departure, and that's when he knew he had to use the P.A. system to talk about his Christian faith.

Before I thought maybe he was just a little overly enthusiastic after his week in Costa Rica... but now I'm starting to get scared...

MK

 

[Garfield1966]

The mere fact that he cannot control his impulse to speak of the PA about something so personal because he "thinks" god told him too makes me very scared. He may or may not be dangerous but he sure as hell has no judgement skills.

 

[Captain Ed]

Amen to that

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

WNP, as usual, great detective work.("Pilot speaks")


Garfield1966,
I agree with you AGAIN .

This Pilot MUST keep his emotions in check, while on duty.
ESPECIALLY on a LAX-JFK run !!!!!!!

(Why do I get the feeling if the flt was DFW-OKC, that he would have got a "standing ovation" ) ??????????

NH/BB's

 

[JS]

A minor problem with the plane's braking system had developed during final checks before takeoff, he said, a problem that might have grounded the aircraft...But after a simple maneuver involving a power source, the braking problem inexplicably "disappeared," Findiesen said, and the plane was cleared for departure, and that's when he knew he had to use the P.A. system to talk about his Christian faith.

How about that -- miracles do happen.

 

[L1011Ret]

Usually before we expound on something, we make an internal quick analysis about how the message will be received by others. It appears there was no analysis of the impact of his message, so in an impulsive move at self gratification, he speaks out. I would bet that he is really struggling with what he did. If he is nor struggling, there is a real problem.