Proselytizing Pilot
- Thread starter WingNaPrayer
- Start date
- Status
NewHampshire Black Bears
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 10,154
- 681
Consider this;
The guy get's canned,("AND I'M NOT SAYING HE SHOULD"), the earliest job he landed was with EL-AL .
NH/BB's
The guy get's canned,("AND I'M NOT SAYING HE SHOULD"), the earliest job he landed was with EL-AL .
NH/BB's
jimntx
Veteran
Evidently, your paper must have gotten wet on the MANY occasions that the Supreme Court and lower courts have ruled against school prayer, religious displays on government property, etc.JS said:
Relevance is--when I want religion I go to church, I do not go out to the airport and board an airplane.
I agree wholeheartedly with the earlier poster who asked the hypothetical question of what if the pilot had been Jewish, or Moslem, or Hindu? Would you have been as ready to defend his "right" to proselytize? I doubt it.
Airlines are not government agencies. "Freedom from religion" is a belief by those who wish to extend the 1st Amendment to include everything else.
I asked for the relevance of the 1st Amendment, Supreme Court, etc., to American Airlines.
As long as it's not Islam, fine with me. A Muslim in the cockpit is a genuine danger.
twasilverbullet
Advanced
- Jan 25, 2004
- 206
- 0
The day we stop arguing about religion the world will be a better place to live in.
I know you don't think so, but that was a non-sequitur. Yes, airlines are not government agencies, and thus the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to their rules.JS said:
However, "freedom from religion" is a belief that we should all be able to practice whatever religion we choose, even if it is no religion, without government intervention.
One final note about the Constitution. The Constitution means what the Supreme Court says it means, period. If the Supreme Court says that the 1st Amendment orders us all to eat hamburgers every day for lunch, then the law of the land is that we must all eat hamburgers every day for lunch. The Supremes have the final say, regardless of what the actual words of the Constitution are. At least, according to the Constitution.
That's not just a belief; it's the law of the land. The freedom to practice any religion, including none, is freedom OF religion and is in the First Amendment.mweiss said:
Freedom FROM religion is the belief that no one should ever hear or see anything religious. It is not the law of the land.
Garfield1966
Veteran
That is one of the most asinine statements I have heard in along time. That is an insult to those who are true Muslims. The terrorists are not more Muslims than Jerry Fallwell is a Christian. Your statement is the equivalent of Native Americans of African Americans condemning all “whitesâ€.JS said:
Anyone can practice what ever faith they choose to, but just don’t dare try shoving it down my throat and don’t expect me to pay for it. If I pay tax’s to support an entity, you have no right to place your stuff on it to promote your beliefs or to insult mine.
As far as I am concerned, he should have to forfeit a months salary and forced to do community service at another religious institution such as a Hindu temple, or a Muslim temple. He needs to see what these religions are that he is condemning.
NewHampshire Black Bears
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 10,154
- 681
Garfield1966;Garfield1966 said:
I'm glad you mentioned "Native Americans".(which allows me to express an opinion)
As a baptised christian child,(fast forward many, many years), I've finally(after a LOT of heavy thought), have come to the conclusion that the FIRST PEOPLE, in the land refered to as (the) America's, have been "doing" religeon right", for hundreds and hundreds of years. And it all so simple.
1. A, (The) CREATOR
2. MOTHER EARTH/NATURE(and all the beautiful things that that entails)
IMHO,
Nothing more, Nothing less !!!!!!!!!!
?????????
NH/BB's
OP
WingNaPrayer
Veteran
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #55
There's a little more to it than that. I believe all original tribes belived that Mother Earth (AKA, Ina - AKA The Old Stone Woman) was the "creator" as you put it. That christian version of the "creator" didn't slip in until the puritans hit the continent and all hell broke loose . . .literally!
As a survivor of the catholic crutch, I can attest to the fact that no religion is perfect, and no religion is the "one and only" that deserves recognition. The fact is, each religion builds it's own place where they can have a "captive" audience, and people go there by choice (except for small children of course who don't know any better). People boarded American Airlines Flight 34 by choice, and ALL for the same reason . . .transportation. They did not board expecting to receive any type of religious reflection, or any type of suggestion that they should pay attention to what those of a specific religion might have to say to them during that flight.
The fact remains, these customers were trapped. They were a captive audience, and this pilot clearly took advantage of that whether he meant to or not, although I think he did.
In these days of religious fanaticism based wars and killing, there is no room in the cockpit for the installation of a pulpit, and any pilot who would try to make it so is abusing the authority he/she has over the customers on that flight, and equally abusing the trust they have placed in that pilot when they stepped on board.
No one should have to wonder, when boarding a plane on any airline, whether or not the pilot has religious meanderings he/she might want to share once the door is locked. Likewise, no customer should have to wonder whether or not that pilot, who may be deeply immersed in his/her religion, might choose that day, and that flight, filled with those particular passengers, to snap - just like those several gentlemen did on 9/11.
Those who have religious beliefs will bring their own with them on board, and as far as I know, every passenger so far has managed to keep it to themselves (save for that holy revival in the back of the plane we saw on Southwest on last week's episode of "Airline"), which also may have led this pilot to believe what he was going to do, and there is no doubt that he planned it as far as I'm concerned, was an ok thing to do.
Regardless of publicity, there is some music this pilot is going to have to face, and though none of us may ever hear of it, I'm sure it won't be a tune that will change his convictions, just when he chooses to share them.
As a survivor of the catholic crutch, I can attest to the fact that no religion is perfect, and no religion is the "one and only" that deserves recognition. The fact is, each religion builds it's own place where they can have a "captive" audience, and people go there by choice (except for small children of course who don't know any better). People boarded American Airlines Flight 34 by choice, and ALL for the same reason . . .transportation. They did not board expecting to receive any type of religious reflection, or any type of suggestion that they should pay attention to what those of a specific religion might have to say to them during that flight.
The fact remains, these customers were trapped. They were a captive audience, and this pilot clearly took advantage of that whether he meant to or not, although I think he did.
In these days of religious fanaticism based wars and killing, there is no room in the cockpit for the installation of a pulpit, and any pilot who would try to make it so is abusing the authority he/she has over the customers on that flight, and equally abusing the trust they have placed in that pilot when they stepped on board.
No one should have to wonder, when boarding a plane on any airline, whether or not the pilot has religious meanderings he/she might want to share once the door is locked. Likewise, no customer should have to wonder whether or not that pilot, who may be deeply immersed in his/her religion, might choose that day, and that flight, filled with those particular passengers, to snap - just like those several gentlemen did on 9/11.
Those who have religious beliefs will bring their own with them on board, and as far as I know, every passenger so far has managed to keep it to themselves (save for that holy revival in the back of the plane we saw on Southwest on last week's episode of "Airline"), which also may have led this pilot to believe what he was going to do, and there is no doubt that he planned it as far as I'm concerned, was an ok thing to do.
Regardless of publicity, there is some music this pilot is going to have to face, and though none of us may ever hear of it, I'm sure it won't be a tune that will change his convictions, just when he chooses to share them.
NewHampshire Black Bears
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 10,154
- 681
WNP, allow me to respond to JS.JS said:
"No it was'nt a coincidence" (9/11)
NOW, let me ask you.
Ever hear about Jim Jones(Jonestown) ?? David Koresh (Waco TEX A$$) ???
A "certain" brand of evangelical/fundamentelists, largely based in the South/Southwest, are Scary people !!!!!!!!!!!
The more I see/hear of these folks, the more I'm convinced that my ALL TIME HERO, a man named Tatanka Iyotaka, was RIGHT.
Who's Tatanka Iyotaka, you ask ???
"SITTING BULL" !!!!!!!!!!!
NH/BB's
goingboeing
Veteran
- Jan 30, 2004
- 584
- 1
The problem for lots of people is that they confuse Jesus Christ with religion.Jesus' biggest opposition when He was on the earth was and STILL IS the religious system.Jesus is a friend of the common man and He did not think highly of the religious leaders.Jesus never forced Himself on anyone and people came to Him on a voluntary basis.Jesus showed us the example that He lived and trying to "cram Jesus down your throat" IS NOT the way to go.I do not think the pilot should be fired but he should be reprimanded for his actions.
Garfield1966
Veteran
Oh my god. I have no idea where to start.
Bear …. Stop that. This is the second time we have agreed on something and it is really freaking me out. OH, and lest I forget, Wing … nice post … never thought I’d see that coming off my PC.
Ok now for JS. You are racist pig. To condemn an entire group of people of the actions of a few is beyond stupid. By your twisted logic, all Catholics are evil do to the actions of a few deviant priest. All people are bad since a few are bad … how far do you want to take your statement. All Americans are definitely evil for numerous reasons such as interring American citizens during WWII since they “looked†like the enemy, we stole the land from the native Americans and then tried to extinguish their heritage, we imported slaves by the tens of thousands, raped them of their heritage, sold them like meat, and threw them out like yesterdays garbage. We have supported despots and dictators through out the world. Would you like me to continue? Yes? Good … Let’s see. There is Divine destiny (that is Christianity at its most arrogant.). There were the crusades. There were the Romans who hated the Christians and fed them to the lions for sport. There was the Spanish inquisition. OH Yea, almost forgot the witch trials. There was the time the Spaniards wiped out the Incas. So, do these actions make ALL Americans, Spaniards, Romans, Christians … bad?
I took an Arab history class in college way back when and part of the class involved studying the religion. The religion is peaceful, or at least as peaceful as any other religion / cult. It’s the people who can twist and pervert it.
Someone eles need to pistol whip this moron, I'm way too pissed right now.
Bear …. Stop that. This is the second time we have agreed on something and it is really freaking me out. OH, and lest I forget, Wing … nice post … never thought I’d see that coming off my PC.
Ok now for JS. You are racist pig. To condemn an entire group of people of the actions of a few is beyond stupid. By your twisted logic, all Catholics are evil do to the actions of a few deviant priest. All people are bad since a few are bad … how far do you want to take your statement. All Americans are definitely evil for numerous reasons such as interring American citizens during WWII since they “looked†like the enemy, we stole the land from the native Americans and then tried to extinguish their heritage, we imported slaves by the tens of thousands, raped them of their heritage, sold them like meat, and threw them out like yesterdays garbage. We have supported despots and dictators through out the world. Would you like me to continue? Yes? Good … Let’s see. There is Divine destiny (that is Christianity at its most arrogant.). There were the crusades. There were the Romans who hated the Christians and fed them to the lions for sport. There was the Spanish inquisition. OH Yea, almost forgot the witch trials. There was the time the Spaniards wiped out the Incas. So, do these actions make ALL Americans, Spaniards, Romans, Christians … bad?
I took an Arab history class in college way back when and part of the class involved studying the religion. The religion is peaceful, or at least as peaceful as any other religion / cult. It’s the people who can twist and pervert it.
Someone eles need to pistol whip this moron, I'm way too pissed right now.
- Status
