Pilots Sue Airlines And Thier Union

[BoeingBoy]

A company, like US, that deals directly with the public has any number of lawsuits against it at any time - it's a cost of doing business. Countersuing everyone who sues the company is pretty counterproductive when you can just drag everything out and achieve the purpose of "out spending" those who sue.

And then there's the PR results of filing countersuits to think about.

Jim

 

[aquagreen73s]

Again, I can't imagine what counterclaim ALPO or the airlines would have against the MDA pilots. I'm sure they'll think of something way out there and file it in their response to the complaint (in the form of a counterclaim), but big deal. THe MDA attorney will file his/her reply to the counterclaim, cite the law as to why it's complete BS, and request the claim be dismissed. And the judge will probably toss it. That's the way the process works. Sure it'll cost a couple of hundred dollars in attorneys fees to the MDA pilots to respond to the counterclaim, but that's why a law firm employees paralegals and law students. They do all the softball stuff and I strongly suspect any sort of counterclaim will be a softball for the MDA attorneys; piece of cake for them to get rid of because it will be baseless.

First of all, however, we need to read the complaint. Then we need to read the reply/counterclaim. Then we'll be able to gauge the strength of each party because it's easy to identify the weak arguments, even in the initial filings.

 

[aquagreen73s]

>>A company, like US, that deals directly with the public has any number of lawsuits against it at any time - it's a cost of doing business. <<

Bingo...it's the cost of doing business. Plus, at first blush, I suspect the airlines will be out of it pretty quickly. The MDA pilots were privy to the whole deal...through their legal representative...ALPO. Therefore, their claim is agianst the union, not the airlines.

 

[ClueByFour]

I'm not going to get into a legal discussion in a public forum, which would not be smart. Let me say this. It's my understanding that the 270 MDA pilots who filed the lawsuit could have a counter suit filed against them by organizations (plural) that have very "deep pockets

I suppose that's the ALPA scare line--"I'm not going to tell you about what we might do" followed by "but don't do it, because we'll try to use our deep pockets and the legal system to stall."

There is no strategy. There are no grounds for a countersuit. Post such grounds, or just do the right thing and admit that you (like the GAG) are worried that the actions of the GAGged MEC will result in big time $$$ being paid out of your pocket to the MDA guys.

 

[aquagreen73s]

MDA pilots have NOTHING to worry about. The airlines will be out of the suit quickly and leave ALPO alone in the fight. De-wayne and cronies are too busy collecting half million dollar salaries and compensation to afford to fight this. The only weak party here is ALPO and they are ripe for a severe legal ass kicking. Go for it MDA pilots!

 

[delldude]

I'm not going to get into a legal discussion in a public forum, which would not be smart. Let me say this. It's my understanding that the 270 MDA pilots who filed the lawsuit could have a counter suit filed against them by organizations (plural) that have very "deep pockets."

Do I like this? No, of course not, but do not "shoot the messenger." It is what it is and there is nothing that I (or the MDA pilots for that matter) can do about it.

I believe any good lawyer would have warned their client about this potential before filing a lawsuit, right?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="311359"][/post]​

methinks someone is into the CYA mode here.......if MDA would succeed what could happen mainline flyboys??

 

[USA320Pilot]

Clue:

You're not that stupid are you? Never mind...

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Mtnman928]

Do not be surprised if multiple counter lawsuits are filed against the MDA pilots as individuals. This has the potential to be a very long and drawn out process that could be tied up in the courts for years. It's possible that the only winners will be the attorney's with participants spending a lot of money on legal fees.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="311315"][/post]​

I am still waiting for the results of the investigation of the fomer F/O rep from PHL. Wasn't legal action suppose to be taken against him?

Mtnman

 

[awayfrmitall]

Do not be surprised if multiple counter lawsuits are filed against the MDA pilots as individuals.
Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="311315"][/post]​

Will these lawsuits be brought by the same people that were going to do something legally to the other pilot group that didn't want to bring the horrible contract out for a vote?

Seems like I have read numerous times from you how people were going to be INDIVIDUALLY sued or whatnot for quite some time now... Just wondering the status of all that or is it just B.S.?

 

[robbedagain]

why is HP being sued by the group if they had nothing to do with the MDA-Republic deal?

 

[SoldWholeSale]

Let me re-state this, I strongly believe there will be multiple counter lawsuits filed against the 270 MDA pilots who started the litigation. Nobody should be surprised at this action because the defendants in the MDA suit are simply protecting them self and reacting to the MDA pilot suit.

The MDA pilots are suing ALPA, which has a legal right to respond, just like US Airways and Republic.

The only thing I know for sure is that this is going to get ugly, it will be a drawn out protracted legal battle, and the lawyers are going to be big time winners.

Every American has the right to file a lawsuit and the defendant has the right to fight the action and to file a counter lawsuit, which is almost assuredly going to happen in the not-to-distant future.

Also noteworthy, any good attorney would have likely warned their client of the likelihood of a counter suit by a union or a $10 billion company before the plantiff filed their suit...right?

Do I like this? No, of course not, but it is what it is. If the MDA pilots want to be involved in very, very expensive litigation than ALPA and the other defendants will likely be compelled to do so too.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

P.S. I believe you will be surprised at what happens next in this story.

[post="311347"][/post]​

Or, the pilots union could do what they were supposed to do in the first place, prior to 300 MDA pilots getting screwed. Which would be the first for the pilots union... How about just doing the right thing?? How about admitting that MDA is a paper doll, that the pilots should have been included under the AAA contract, that the pay and work rule changes contractually HAD to have been voted on and the pilots union screwed the pooch? How about making the guys/gals at MDA whole, the AAA contract already had group 3 and 4 pay rates. How about a contract which doesn't exist, you ever worked anywhere for two years under a contract noones ever seen?

USA320, you are the lowest common denominator of our profession. For those who have read "shiney new jets", this is the new version of "I'll step on any head I have to to stay off furlough".

320, you and the pilots union both know the attorney. He doesn't take cases without merrit. He didn't with Spellacy/Duke vs. ALPA, he didn't with the RJDC, and this one is no exception. The MDA pilots are the most professional group you've ever come across, most pay their dues, (or did until now), all are extremely polished in regard to daily ops, treat passengers well, and regularly go above and beyond what is normal for both internal and external customers alike. There is nothing anyone could file against the MDA group. We did in fact explore the possibility prior to filing.... Once again, the MEC eliteists have no clue how wholly they aren't.

Quite possibly, unlike the pilots union, the company under new managment might seek to do the right thing..... DP has a history of doing just that more often than not. When one reads the filing, and 350+ pages of supporting evidense, the right thing becomes pretty clear, pretty quickly. More than one attorney used the term "slam dunk".....

320, you blow with the wind. If you (and the rest of the "give away gang") think the MDA pilots are right, and have been mistreated, why aren't you sending checks to UMPA "USAIRways MidAtlantic Pilots Association"? UMPA is a legal not-for-profit corporation set up by the MDA pilots for representational purposes such as picketing outside the purview of ALPA.

On the other hand, having ALPA after a group of their own would do wonders for the opinions of members in many other airlines who are already teetering on the decision of whether to or not to decertify.....

ALL OR NONE!

SH

 

[SoldWholeSale]

why is HP being sued by the group if they had nothing to do with the MDA-Republic deal?

[post="311410"][/post]​

Due to the fact that they were in merger procedings at the time, and are now part of, but operating separately from the old USAirways. The suits against those folks aren't for damages per say. HP/USAirways are in a position to easity remedy their end, but in doing so assist the MDA pilots in their case against the pilots union which would have both managment and MDA pilots on the same page publically.

Oh, the good part in regard to "legalling the MDA pilots to death" is, the suits were filed in NY. Thats the MDA attorneys back yard, no travel, hotel nights, or worthless trips to DC. ;-)


ALL OR NONE!

SH

 

[A320 Driver]

I agree with all those out to condemn ALPA. They had NO business trying to save the jobs of the furloughed pilots. It is not their place to make deals to keep people working. After all, a furlough is a furlough right? Your on your own boys and girls. If you get furloughed, go directly to the unemployment line. DO NOT get "jets for jobs". DO NOT get MDA. DO NOT get your fellow ALPA pilots paying your medical insurance! How stupid of the MEC to try to change decades of tradition where furloughees were left to swing in the wind.

When things go bad, people come out of the woodwork to point fingers and place blame. They dont recall the sacrifices and givebacks the mainline pilot group made to try to keep people working, even if not on par with a mainline pilot position. Some people still believe that any job is better than no job...and then there are those that don't. The MEC went into uncharted territory with this whole JFJ and MDA thing and the company took advantage of it and sold it out from under us even though mainline paycuts were supposed to finance the aircraft aquisitions (my understanding of it). ALPA has had it's share of dirty deals; Pan Am, TWA and others.

This wasn't one of them.

A320 Driver

 

[SoldWholeSale]

You sir would be absolutly correct had the pilots union not taken advantage of the situation. They created a bargaining chip, worked outside RLA, and violated the AAA contract to the detriment of YOU and the rest of the pilot group.

The MDA pilots didn't wait until "things went bad". The MDA group has been trying since November 18 2003 (their first meeting with MEC members), to remedy all the faults of the situation. That was not accomplished however, because the MEC would not allow it to happen as they would no longer have the Embraer 170 division as a bargaining tool to once again save their own hides.

As for J4J, it was a joke. Had ALPA not scoffed at the idea of operating RJ's on the mainline back in 2000 when it was first brought up, and let mgmnt buy them to be flown at mainline by mainline, they wouldn't have had to fight to secure 50% of the jobs.

Did you know there were pay and work rule changes you were never allowed to vote on? Its not supposed to work that way..... MDA pays AAA dues, paid medical assessments, holds MEC posts, and wears the same damn brass as the rest of the USAirways pilots.

Did anyone really read the new Embraer 190 pay rates they just voted on? They aren't amendable for 12 years, and carry with them their own longevity weighting system. If you thought you had 15 years with the company, you will be mistaken should you bid the 190 and not be able to get a 15 year rate... the Pilots Union supported this rate which is in fact less than JB.

ALL OR NONE!

SH

 

[ClueByFour]

Clue:

You're not that stupid are you? Never mind...

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="311381"][/post]​

That's the best you have, Mr. Insider? I take pride in the fact that with a mere post I can reduce you from the "same old song and dance" to attacking the messenger.

When you have something substantial, let me know. Really. Besides which, your credibility and posting style don't hold the necessary voice to dress down anyone here or on any other forum. Your record of throwing enough bovine fecal matter against the wall until something sticks and/or spinning that splash to save your seat speaks for itself.

Hey--how did those charges go against the RC4? Do you want to discuss how well your previous prognostications went on ALPA filing suit against it's own members?

Once again, folks: Expect no answer, just more attacks. It's difficult when one is called on this kind of stuff--unnamed sources and inexplicable legal "strategies" (more accurated unsubstantiated rumours thereof) don't do well under even moderate scrutiny.