Pilots new proposal and the Me Too Clause

[OgieJFK]

Not just the mechanics but all skilled groups are carrying the unskilled period.

I gave up 17.5%, 5 holidays, 5 vacation days, and 7 days of sick time, with 1/2 pay for used sick time to carry the unskilled.
If layoffs, would have happened in 2003 it would have been those unskilled leaving.

No illusions, just facts!

This was the post I was responding to in case you are incapable of comprehension,



But go ahead and believe $24+ for throwing bags is not above market rate for that job. But you are wrong!

That is funny. Do you really believe that just the unskilled would have hit the street in 2003. I'm sorry but that is truly an assine statement. It wouldn't have mattered if you were TWU, AMFA, or G.O.D.....AA was going to get their givebacks no matter who you had as a union. So grats, you got your scapegoat. You played right into the TWU and AAs hands.As for you guys carrying unskilled labor.....LOL....The truth of the matter is unskilled labor and AMTs in the big stations have carried all you sorry asses in Tul/Dfw. I've said it since the day it happened but you guys (AMTs) are farking stupid suckers for not voting out the TWU when you wanted too. You guys are like an abused wife who keeps coming back for more beatings from both AA and the TWU. As for NYC AMTs...... LIRR is a great place to work. You can double the salary that craphole of company (AA) will pay you. Just leave the God complex and shitty attitude at AA. Hope to see you soon.

 

[TWU informer]

That is funny. Do you really believe that just the unskilled would have hit the street in 2003. I'm sorry but that is truly an assine statement. It wouldn't have mattered if you were TWU, AMFA, or G.O.D.....AA was going to get their givebacks no matter who you had as a union. So grats, you got your scapegoat. You played right into the TWU and AAs hands.As for you guys carrying unskilled labor.....LOL....The truth of the matter is unskilled labor and AMTs in the big stations have carried all you sorry asses in Tul/Dfw. I've said it since the day it happened but you guys (AMTs) are farking stupid suckers for not voting out the TWU when you wanted too. You guys are like an abused wife who keeps coming back for more beatings from both AA and the TWU. As for NYC AMTs...... LIRR is a great place to work. You can double the salary that craphole of company (AA) will pay you. Just leave the God complex and shitty attitude at AA. Hope to see you soon.

There are many unskilled in Title 1, they are now called OSM's for overhaul support mechanics. There are also still building cleaners in Tulsa. So yes unskilled would have left in 2003. They are about to leave now and the concessions saved nothing. Now you know and it was not an "assine" statement, whatever that might be.

 

[Buck]

There are many unskilled in Title 1, they are now called OSM's for overhaul support mechanics. There are also still building cleaners in Tulsa. So yes unskilled would have left in 2003. They are about to leave now and the concessions saved nothing. Now you know and it was not an "assine" statement, whatever that might be.

The sad part is that the TWU is going to "negotiate" some of the skilled AMT's into the unskilled OSM's.

 

[Zom JFK]

Theres a russian story im probably butchering it but here goes. There were two farmers Ivan and Boris. Ivan had a cow but Boris didn't. Ivans cow made milk, helped him pull the plow and that made Boris very jealous. Well one day Boris found a bottle with a genie inside. The genie told Boris he would grant him one wish. Boris thought about this and he replied " I want Ivans cow to die ". This is the kind of guy some of you mechanics, like informer, are. You want other working people to lose what they have. If only the unskilled made less you would make more. What nonsense. Your only concern should be your pay. I dont want to see ANY workers lose pay or benefits. Bob Owens gets it, why dont you? Your attitude is everything thats wrong with labor in this country. If only the european elites could convince their working people to think like you then they could have an easy time stealing their pay, benefits and pensions just like the wealthy are doing here!

P.S I am proud to say I am no longer employed at that abysmal company and I make more than an aircraft mechanic. And im ( GASP ) unskilled! In spite of the attitudes of some I will ALLWAYS support labor whether they are skilled or not.

 

[Buck]

I disagree, I believe you are now in a different profession and the question of skill is up to you and those in your craft.

 

[TWU informer]

Theres a russian story im probably butchering it but here goes. There were two farmers Ivan and Boris. Ivan had a cow but Boris didn't. Ivans cow made milk, helped him pull the plow and that made Boris very jealous. Well one day Boris found a bottle with a genie inside. The genie told Boris he would grant him one wish. Boris thought about this and he replied " I want Ivans cow to die ". This is the kind of guy some of you mechanics, like informer, are. You want other working people to lose what they have. If only the unskilled made less you would make more. What nonsense. Your only concern should be your pay. I dont want to see ANY workers lose pay or benefits. Bob Owens gets it, why dont you? Your attitude is everything thats wrong with labor in this country. If only the european elites could convince their working people to think like you then they could have an easy time stealing their pay, benefits and pensions just like the wealthy are doing here!

P.S I am proud to say I am no longer employed at that abysmal company and I make more than an aircraft mechanic. And im ( GASP ) unskilled! In spite of the attitudes of some I will ALLWAYS support labor whether they are skilled or not.

I don't want your cow to die. I don't want your milk. And I will buy my own plow too.
And I don't believe in wish granting genies either.
And your bread is your bread.

I don't want the unskilled to lose any pay and benefits. I wish them the best.

I just no longer want to sit at the same union table they sit at.
I don't want a "me too" clause after you voted yes, to keep me from getting what I can get without giving half to you and the other yes voters after you already agreed to sell your soul to the devil for nothing.


The story should read just the opposite.
Ivan had a cow and Boris did not. The genie made Ivan share his cow with Boris even though there were plenty of cows to buy at market. Boris should not have to buy his own cow, because Ivan lived next door.

It is noted that this story you tell comes from Russia. Was that genie a commie too?

 

[Hopeful]

As for NYC AMTs...... LIRR is a great place to work. You can double the salary that craphole of company (AA) will pay you. Just leave the God complex and shitty attitude at AA. Hope to see you soon.

I didn't know the LIRR had a few hundred openings all NYC based mechanics.

 

[OgieJFK]

I didn't know the LIRR had a few hundred openings all NYC based mechanics.

They had some. They aren't the only game in town either. There are way better job opportunities out there then what AA is selling. Good luck

 

[OgieJFK]

The sad part is that the TWU is going to "negotiate" some of the skilled AMT's into the unskilled OSM's.

Thank you Buck. You got what i wrote.

 

[Realityck]

I just no longer want to sit at the same union table they sit at.

And here I thought the Mechanic & Related Contract was being negotiated by the elected Presidents and representatives of AMTs, both Line and Overhaul? So far they've opted not to accept what the company claimed it could afford, and to my knowledge, the other (non-AMT) groups had no participation in the decision.


I don't want a "me too" clause after you voted yes, to keep me from getting what I can get without giving half to you and the other yes voters after you already agreed to sell your soul to the devil for nothing.

I think you may have missed the point on the me-too issue. As I understand it, due to the alleged financial problems they claim were caused by union contracts, AA management demanded 20% in concessions from all union groups. In this case it prevented them from playing one group against another. Every contract group has its own industry standard argument to make, and in our situation its aggravated by the fact we're in Bankruptcy. The Overhaul issue is another problem we're dealing with no matter whether you're a Line or Overhaul AMT. These are not easy issues to resolve, and I hope we can find a way to deal with them without creating a permanent split between Line and Overhaul mechanics. And as I hope you know, this issue has affected all other major carrier unions who in some cases allowed management to outsource their heavy maintenance. Southwest Airlines is the most recent example and that fact has not been lost on 514's AMTs.

 

[Buck]

I just no longer want to sit at the same union table they sit at.

And here I thought the Mechanic & Related Contract was being negotiated by the elected Presidents and representatives of AMTs, both Line and Overhaul? So far they've opted not to accept what the company claimed it could afford, and to my knowledge, the other (non-AMT) groups had no participation in the decision.


I don't want a "me too" clause after you voted yes, to keep me from getting what I can get without giving half to you and the other yes voters after you already agreed to sell your soul to the devil for nothing.

I think you may have missed the point on the me-too issue. As I understand it, due to the alleged financial problems they claim were caused by union contracts, AA management demanded 20% in concessions from all union groups. In this case it prevented them from playing one group against another. Every contract group has its own industry standard argument to make, and in our situation its aggravated by the fact we're in Bankruptcy. The Overhaul issue is another problem we're dealing with no matter whether you're a Line or Overhaul AMT. These are not easy issues to resolve, and I hope we can find a way to deal with them without creating a permanent split between Line and Overhaul mechanics. And as I hope you know, this issue has affected all other major carrier unions who in some cases allowed management to outsource their heavy maintenance. Southwest Airlines is the most recent example and that fact has not been lost on 514's AMTs.

Sign an Representational Election card and let us have a vote, forget about the Line vs. Overhaul. Or would you rather keep the mechanics split?

 

[Bob Owens]

Southwest Airlines is the most recent example and that fact has not been lost on 514's AMTs.

Southwest Airlines recently outsourced their OH?

Southwest has always outsourced their OH, even when Southwest mechanics were paid less than us. Back then having the economies of scale to do it in house was considered an advantage.

 

[Realityck]

You're right that they outsourced a large amount of their heavy maintenance in the past, but in their last contract they agreed to allow the outsourcing of an additional line of work to San Salvador. I'm sure AMFA had no choice if they wanted to keep the Line rates as high as they are, but that would be little comfort to us if that happened here.

As to the earlier comment (not yours) asking whether I would rather keep the mechanics split, no I wouldn't, but allowing the outsourcing of our overhaul work like they did at SWA sure as hell isn't the answer.

 

[TWU informer]

You're right that they outsourced a large amount of their heavy maintenance in the past, but in their last contract they agreed to allow the outsourcing of an additional line of work to San Salvador. I'm sure AMFA had no choice if they wanted to keep the Line rates as high as they are, but that would be little comfort to us if that happened here.

As to the earlier comment (not yours) asking whether I would rather keep the mechanics split, no I wouldn't, but allowing the outsourcing of our overhaul work like they did at SWA sure as hell isn't the answer.

And so your solution is?

 

[Buck]

And the TWU prevents outsourcing by accepting the lowest wages in the industry.

RealityCk, at what point do you suggest the balance should be?