USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
Oldie:
Thank you for your meaningful and well thought out post.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Thank you for your meaningful and well thought out post.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Pilot Negotiations - The Truth
- Thread starter Pacemaker
- Start date
N305AS
Advanced
- Aug 20, 2002
- 133
- 0
While we're at it, what is the likelihood that everyone will show up to the meeting wearing t-shirts emblazoned with the words "UNIQUE CORPORATE TRANSACTION" on the front? 
C'mon deleted, we know you want your company to succeed but it really looks like the Fat Lady is simply awaiting her curtain call at this point.
C'mon deleted, we know you want your company to succeed but it really looks like the Fat Lady is simply awaiting her curtain call at this point.
savyinvestor
Senior
- Jan 15, 2003
- 494
- 0
Looks like the "Painful Clause" USA320 was hoping to be inflicted upon the IAM has done a big U turn and is headed right for him. Best of luck to almost everyone. Savy
mwereplanes
Senior
- Jan 21, 2004
- 302
- 0
I suggest you all ignore 320. He is as irrelevant as his posts.
The company has shown their hand. We now know where this is headed and the majority of the MEC will respond accordingly.
They said they wanted a partnership with ALPA. Now they and we are going to have a partnership with a BK judge. And the DELETED BY MODERATOR will fall where they may. It's as simple as that.
mr
The company has shown their hand. We now know where this is headed and the majority of the MEC will respond accordingly.
They said they wanted a partnership with ALPA. Now they and we are going to have a partnership with a BK judge. And the DELETED BY MODERATOR will fall where they may. It's as simple as that.
mr
What angers me the most about all of this is that I have no choice in the matter. You see, I am a member of another company group that does not have much negotiating power, yet I am going to lose my job, my income, everything just because a group of spoiled six figure earning clowns just HAS to have everything their way. You just CAN'T realize that the industry is in trouble and you can not possibly live on an income less than $100,000/yr. Well, here is a does of reality for you bozos.
Bronner is not going to waste time with a just a mere chapter 11 filing. He is going to liquidate the airline and sell the remaining assets to recover funds for himself and the majority stockholders. Get that mad fantasy of "we go with the equipment" out of your skulls. No airline wants you right now - they have people of their own on the street, they already have applicants waiting, and they sure as hell do not want lazy troublemakers signing on with them. The crap that you guys have been pulling at US Airways would get you fired from Southwest in a heartbeat. If a captain at Jetblue was found to be writing up hoax maintenance issues just before he times out on his duty day for a flight that was about to leave, he would be canned on the spot. Yet it happens at PHL all the time.
Under Chapter 7, you will have no job. You will also lose seniority, benefits, and others. The irony in it all is that you could get a job out there - Jetblue will hire you. They will offer you LESS than the pay that Bronner wants you to take, and if you give Jetblue any lip about how you don't like it, then get the hell out they will tell you. I know this myself that Jetblue will offer a starting wage that is 40% less that what I earn now. Bronner wants me to give 15% up.....hmmm what causes the less pain....let's see....
But hey, you are a bunch of skygods! Don't let Lakefield and Bronner push you around! Show them who is REALLY boss around here. Make him take us into Chapter 7, and then I want to see you idiots out there in front of Philly terminal holding up signs that say "ALPA - WE WON - DEFENDING THE PROFESSION". Meanwhile, the Airtran or Southwest captain who still has a job and doesn't have a hard skull like you can stride past and smirk in your face and say, "Jackass..."
Myself? I will get on with Jetblue or Southwest or maybe even that new Virgin outfit. Good pay, respect, no assclowns who want to put you out of a job just so they can feel good. And no PIT(thank god!)
Hey PITBull, are you gonna work for Independence Air when this is all through and over?
Bronner is not going to waste time with a just a mere chapter 11 filing. He is going to liquidate the airline and sell the remaining assets to recover funds for himself and the majority stockholders. Get that mad fantasy of "we go with the equipment" out of your skulls. No airline wants you right now - they have people of their own on the street, they already have applicants waiting, and they sure as hell do not want lazy troublemakers signing on with them. The crap that you guys have been pulling at US Airways would get you fired from Southwest in a heartbeat. If a captain at Jetblue was found to be writing up hoax maintenance issues just before he times out on his duty day for a flight that was about to leave, he would be canned on the spot. Yet it happens at PHL all the time.
Under Chapter 7, you will have no job. You will also lose seniority, benefits, and others. The irony in it all is that you could get a job out there - Jetblue will hire you. They will offer you LESS than the pay that Bronner wants you to take, and if you give Jetblue any lip about how you don't like it, then get the hell out they will tell you. I know this myself that Jetblue will offer a starting wage that is 40% less that what I earn now. Bronner wants me to give 15% up.....hmmm what causes the less pain....let's see....
But hey, you are a bunch of skygods! Don't let Lakefield and Bronner push you around! Show them who is REALLY boss around here. Make him take us into Chapter 7, and then I want to see you idiots out there in front of Philly terminal holding up signs that say "ALPA - WE WON - DEFENDING THE PROFESSION". Meanwhile, the Airtran or Southwest captain who still has a job and doesn't have a hard skull like you can stride past and smirk in your face and say, "Jackass..."
Myself? I will get on with Jetblue or Southwest or maybe even that new Virgin outfit. Good pay, respect, no assclowns who want to put you out of a job just so they can feel good. And no PIT(thank god!)
Hey PITBull, are you gonna work for Independence Air when this is all through and over?
TheLarkAscending
Veteran
El Gato said:
You absolutely have a choice, you are free to leave your current employer and pursue another position with a new company. You are not being held hostage.
Be angry, but use your anger to motivate yourself to look toward your future with different goals and a new job.
Good luck!
mwereplanes
Senior
- Jan 21, 2004
- 302
- 0
Absolutely correct El Gato.
We "Bozo's" are ruining the company. Sorry about that.
mr
We "Bozo's" are ruining the company. Sorry about that.
mr
TheLarkAscending said:
Lark, I do not have a choice over the matter of the pilot's killing the company, and therefore my job. And I have already made advance preparations for the inevitable idiocy that will take place on behalf of ALPA/IAM. The simple matter is that I have a unique and important advantage over some others - I can pick up and move on a moments notice. My pain is bad, but nowhere near as bad as those who are stuck here in the 'burgh with houses, mortgages, families, etc. Their pain, and especially Pittsburgh's pain is going to be unbelievable. And not all of these people are well to do pilots. I am talking about the CWA folks, the flight attendants who don't have much as it is, and who are now faced with losing it all. Losing it all in a city that has NO jobs available, NO hope of new ones coming in, and a problem with what PineyBob would refer to as "addytood". You know what I mean - the Pittsburgh steel mill mentality(Which I suspect the ALPA and IAM are suffering from).
I can be Johnny on the spot tomorrow at Jetblue if it was required....for others, that is a major problem.
mwereplanes said:
mwereplanes, I know you are dripping with sarcasm there, but let's get real about this. You have no where to run, and no where to hide from concessions. You can say no, and then lose your job to either liquidation or a strike, as some communionistas are talking already on here. Full pay to the last day? Tell me, what you do after that last day? No one out there is going to touch a US Airways person with a 10 foot pole, given that we all will take the blame in the corporate world for killing the company. Trouble makers are no good for business. Lazy captains who don't feel they should work 80 hours a month or more are not what you want, even at a startup. Face it, you send this company into Chapter 11 or 7, and you are through. Maybe you can get a new job out there, but no one is going to give you pay that is even remotely close to what you have now. And then there is seniority as well - I can just picture some 52 year old "Captain doofus" pulling up the gear for a 29 year old in the left seat.
A little dosage of reality is what you need. Go hit the want ads for the aviation jobs right now. Sure there are jobs, but they don't pay beans. edited is a fine place to check. Again, I understand why you are angry, but you gotta come to grips with the sad reality facing you here.
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
mwereplanes said:
The cuts we are told will be huge. So folks, if the "all-willing-bend-over pilots are at a "stalemate", then you know this company managment and the stakeholders are up to NO GOOD.
Time to engage a judicial restructuring and everyone needs to step away from the table.
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
El Gato said:Hey PITBull, are you gonna work for Independence Air when this is all through and over?
[post="172121"][/post]
Hey, Johnnie on the spot, don't let the jetway door hit you in the B__ __ __ _!
We employees are all for reasonability and survivability of the co. and the employee. But if the company continues to keep pushing the "line", the neither party can negotiate to a conclusion.
time for all to engage the Bankruptcy process like United. The United managment is getting their teeth kicked in.
wwtraveler99
Member
- Jan 31, 2003
- 94
- 0
Gato,
It's NOT the pilots fault. The company never really wanted to negotiate a contact with the pilots. Now if they could have gotten them to work for free then the company may have agreed to that. I feel sorry for everyone at US, but mostly I feel sorry for people like you who can not see what US really is trying to do. They want to get rid of everyone and start over. Looks like the companys plan will not work. They, and I, thought the pilots wopuld be the first to cave in, in order to have everyone work at commuter rates. I applaud the pilot. I think that if US does go CH7 there will be some carriers hiring (pilots and ground) for there expansion.
It's NOT the pilots fault. The company never really wanted to negotiate a contact with the pilots. Now if they could have gotten them to work for free then the company may have agreed to that. I feel sorry for everyone at US, but mostly I feel sorry for people like you who can not see what US really is trying to do. They want to get rid of everyone and start over. Looks like the companys plan will not work. They, and I, thought the pilots wopuld be the first to cave in, in order to have everyone work at commuter rates. I applaud the pilot. I think that if US does go CH7 there will be some carriers hiring (pilots and ground) for there expansion.
wwtraveler99, I understand what you say, but it is crazy and irrational for a pilot to scream out that he won't accept a 15% paycut, but will gladly accept a 100% one. And if you compare new hire salaries at other carriers to US, even then it is a 50% paycut. Where is the logic in that?
PitBull, you have a very foul mouth, do you know that? A mouth like that could be useful when you land into unemployment - and I don't feel the need to elaborate on what I mean by that.
PitBull, you have a very foul mouth, do you know that? A mouth like that could be useful when you land into unemployment - and I don't feel the need to elaborate on what I mean by that.
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
- 456
PitBull, you have a very foul mouth, do you know that? A mouth like that could be useful when you land into unemployment - and I don't feel the need to elaborate on what I mean by that.
El,
Stop hitting the panic button....you're fear is showing...that's not like you.
Don't worry, we all know you are just a "victim of circumstance". As for me, don't think I will need unemployment...U will not liquidate. And plus, I think managment really, really needs me around here..
Hell, they are expanding B-I-G in Ft. Lauderdale and they will need millions and millions and millions of dollars.
You need to flush out your piggybank!
[post="172152"][/post]
[/quote]El,
Stop hitting the panic button....you're fear is showing...that's not like you.
Don't worry, we all know you are just a "victim of circumstance". As for me, don't think I will need unemployment...U will not liquidate. And plus, I think managment really, really needs me around here..
Hell, they are expanding B-I-G in Ft. Lauderdale and they will need millions and millions and millions of dollars.
You need to flush out your piggybank!
wwtraveler99
Member
- Jan 31, 2003
- 94
- 0
El Gato said:wwtraveler99, I understand what you say, but it is crazy and irrational for a pilot to scream out that he won't accept a 15% paycut, but will gladly accept a 100% one. And if you compare new hire salaries at other carriers to US, even then it is a 50% paycut. Where is the logic in that?
PitBull, you have a very foul mouth, do you know that? A mouth like that could be useful when you land into unemployment - and I don't feel the need to elaborate on what I mean by that.
[post="172152"][/post]
The logic is how much is enough? If you have been following all the development the last week or 2 you could see what was unfolding. This would be the 3rd round of talks. Why didn't they make all the necessary pains during the first or second round? I will say that I too could be put out onm the street if our pilot ever decided to take the same action. But I believe your pilots have done all they could. You are correct though making 100,000+ is not too bad. But think of it this way. You start out making 200,000 and with it you have the expenses that go along with making that kind of money. Now you are ask to give some up so now you are making, say, 160,000, but you still have the expenses of making 200,000. Now come the next request for more money, so you give some again. Now you are in the 135,000 range. Again remember you still are trying to make those same payments when you were making 200,000. Now they come again, "can we have more money?" So you consider it and gree you will give more but then they say, "oh, we also want this and that". Ok we can try to make it work. Then "we forgot 1 more thing". And so on and so on and so on.
Again looking from the outside in I believe US did not really want to come to a FAIR agreement. It was only give, give, give. If the pilots did giveit ALL, guess what? You would have been next. Ask ask yourself how much more would you be willing to give up? When you get the answer then add a little more, cause they will ask.
Think about this, the IAM present US with ideas to save in company about 80,000,000, and were told they were not interested. They wanted wages!!!
