Paycuts At Ual! Article.

[C54Capt]

ualdriver,

Unfortunately, I think you are probably right. As long as the business plan for UAL is to retain and/or grow market share, the only solution is to cut all costs including labor to the lowest common denominator. In the current environment, I don't know if there is a better business plan, although I would think that shedding all unprofitable operations and then rebuilding would be a more prudent plan. This would sacrafice some jobs initially, but would not sacrafice the integrity of the profession in terms of compensation. For what its worth, I hope you can retain your pay and benefits if they scrap your pension but I'll support you guys whether you captitulate or not. I've been there before and there is no good result for anyone involved.

 

[Busdrvr]

"As long as the business plan for UAL is to retain and/or grow market share, the only solution is to cut all costs including labor to the lowest common denominator. In the current environment, I don't know if there is a better business plan, although I would think that shedding all unprofitable operations and then rebuilding would be a more prudent plan. This would sacrafice some jobs initially, but would not sacrafice the integrity of the profession in terms of compensation."

C54, I've got to say that is the biggest load of crap I've heard in quite a while. If UAL started dumping routes, they'd be out of business in no time flat. route Y may be profitable because routes X, W, Z, and Q feed it. now if you cut Q and X it's also a loser. And if UAL gave up more market share, would Scab Founded FRNT suddenly quit growing, or would they hire more guys willing to work for a 4th stripe and a reach around to fly more jets as they attempt to take away the few remaining profitable jets. how many FRNT routes are currently profitable? Will you advocate FRNT shutting down each and every unprofitable route at the end of this Quarter?

As to pay, what is FRNT's B fund payout? Retiree medical? does FRNT have a training center manned by line pilots? Or is it more important for you to have a few extra bucks than to try to protect jobs?

I think that any company that can't pay good wages should be gone. I'll make a deal with you. If you guys demand FRNT employ just as many pilots, Mechs and F/A's per flight hour as UA, pay them all the same amount (total package, not just W-2), and demand a retro check that covers the years UAL paid SIGNIFICANTLY more, then we can sit around and pontificate on the merits of the "bar". But that's just me, who unlike you, wouldn't work for either payscale (sorry, I've got a little more self respect)

 

[mrfish3726]

BUS,

You’re so full of yourself, kind of like some guy over on the USAIR threads A320! UniTED SUX'S, it is one of the worst airlines anyone could be employed at! Hell they could be offering $100 bucks an hour and I would NEVER work for that crap hole EVER AGAIN!!! Money isn't everything DUDE; working at F9 brought back my self-respect! When I worked At UAL I was embarrassed to even tell people that I worked there!

It's the difference between Night and Day between employment at UniTED and Frontier. As I said before, our mechanics make just as much as UniTED mechanics make. And I make more as a Tech Specialist than a UAL MOC Tech. If anyone in the baby boomer error hasn't been saving for their own retirement than shame on them! In the 30 years I have been in this industry I have worked all over the world for many different companies and airlines. I have been saving for years to fund my OWN retirement plan, and will have more a year now then any UniTED pilot will after your pension is cancelled. Mine can't be cancelled, because it's ALL MINE!!

UniTED pilots have no more skills than the pilots that have been furloughed from other major carriers. You having a flight training center that will soon have contractors working their, doesn't make UniTED any better of an airline to work for than AA, Delta, CA, NW, SWA, JB, AirTran, ATA, INDY Air, or F9. With UniTED in such financial trouble you should not crap were you lay. You could be fighting for one of those pilot gigs at a LCC REAL SOON. We'll all stayed tuned! B)

 

[C54Capt]

As to pay, what is FRNT's B fund payout? Retiree medical? does FRNT have a training center manned by line pilots? Or is it more important for you to have a few extra bucks than to try to protect jobs?

I think that any company that can't pay good wages should be gone.

[post="204268"][/post]​

Bus,

Holy cow!!! I didn't mean to get you so wound up, plus I wasn't talking to you. Now then, your statements were obviously made out of emotion and not much basis in the new reality. You know that I made my fortune before entering this gig, so why would I consider your comparables between F9 and UAL. I know that what I'm making now is better than what I would be making with the same time and grade at UAL (before future cuts), thats my reality.

Your statement on not shedding unprofitable operations to retain marketshare falls right in line with the old thinking of out-dated airline management. F9 just dropped a bunch of unprofitable operations, and they don't really care about marketshare, rather they care about their own operation. Its a new way of thinking for you to understand, but reallocation of assets to profitable operations is the wave of the future. If BK didn't unfairly unbalance the playing field, you know F9 would be raking in the profits. You know all this to be true busdrivr, so please don't attack us for your failures. If you have a beef with one of your pilots that helped start Frontier, then go have it out with him.

 

[Busdrvr]

"If BK didn't unfairly unbalance the playing field, you know F9 would be raking in the profits."

Then why doesn't FRNT just go BK? It's such a great deal and all.... But was FRNT always profitable? Did FRNT threaten court action to remain in business? Is that the "free market"? Did FRNT get a government subsidized loan garentee? Is thatthe "free market"? all this revisionist history is downright comical. Would UAL be BK if CAL and AWA were forced to liquidate instead of restructure? Would they be in BK if NWA hadn't got a government backed loan from Minn and been forced into BK/Liquidation? this business is all about government intervention, and truth be told, without the government being involved, UAL likely wouldn't have gone BK. The ATSB strung the company along until recovery was too late. Without the loan program, there would have been massive paycuts in the middle of 2002, just like they pulled off at AMR and DAL.

"You know that I made my fortune before entering this gig, so why would I consider your comparables between F9 and UAL."

If you truely 'made a fortune' somepalce else, then what you are now doing is truely disgusting. You are driving down wages and benefits for the rest of the industry, making this job one that will be difficult to raise a family on, and you "do it because it's fun"? go buy a airplane. but even more to the point, if flying a 319 is your idea of fun flying, then your piloting skills (or lack of) apparently kept you out of much better gigs. No emotion involved, I'm on the outside, unwilling to even apply at FRNT, AWA, JBlu, Valujet, and definately unwilling to sell out an industry and profession so i can tell my neighbors "I fly the big iron at FRNT...."

 

[UAL_TECH]

"If BK didn't unfairly unbalance the playing field, you know F9 would be raking in the profits."

Then why doesn't FRNT just go BK? It's such a great deal and all.... But was FRNT always profitable? Did FRNT threaten court action to remain in business? Is that the "free market"? Did FRNT get a government subsidized loan garentee? Is thatthe "free market"? all this revisionist history is downright comical. Would UAL be BK if CAL and AWA were forced to liquidate instead of restructure? Would they be in BK if NWA hadn't got a government backed loan from Minn and been forced into BK/Liquidation? this business is all about government intervention, and truth be told, without the government being involved, UAL likely wouldn't have gone BK. The ATSB strung the company along until recovery was too late. Without the loan program, there would have been massive paycuts in the middle of 2002, just like they pulled off at AMR and DAL.

"You know that I made my fortune before entering this gig, so why would I consider your comparables between F9 and UAL."

If you truely 'made a fortune' somepalce else, then what you are now doing is truely disgusting. You are driving down wages and benefits for the rest of the industry, making this job one that will be difficult to raise a family on, and you "do it because it's fun"? go buy a airplane. but even more to the point, if flying a 319 is your idea of fun flying, then your piloting skills (or lack of) apparently kept you out of much better gigs. No emotion involved, I'm on the outside, unwilling to even apply at FRNT, AWA, JBlu, Valujet, and definately unwilling to sell out an industry and profession so i can tell my neighbors "I fly the big iron at FRNT...."

[post="204466"][/post]​

Give'em Hell BusDriver
B) UT

 

[C54Capt]

If you truely 'made a fortune' somepalce else, then what you are now doing is truely disgusting. You are driving down wages and benefits for the rest of the industry, making this job one that will be difficult to raise a family on, and you "do it because it's fun"? go buy a airplane. but even more to the point, if flying a 319 is your idea of fun flying, then your piloting skills (or lack of) apparently kept you out of much better gigs. No emotion involved, I'm on the outside, unwilling to even apply at FRNT, AWA, JBlu, Valujet, and definately unwilling to sell out an industry and profession so i can tell my neighbors "I fly the big iron at FRNT...."

[post="204466"][/post]​

Bus,

Your comments are quite comical. If making six figures in semi-retirement is "disgusting" then I guess that is what it is. But my original post stated the fact that I am making more than I would at UAL, so after the next round of concessions there you can go bad-mouth all your former co-workers for bringing down the industry.


I already own several airplanes. If you want to go compare pilot skills, please PM me for an appointment. I would love to get you up in the air to see if you can walk the walk. I certainly can and the offer is on the table.

Most importantly Bus is that you should choose a profession that you have a passion for and not be so wrapped up in money and berating your peers. You will be a much happier person. My career included a stint flying for Uncle Sam, owning an aviation business, flying for a big airline, and now flying for a little airline. I have no regrets and would not change a thing.

 

[JungleClone]

The worst part about it is if anyone thinks this is UA Senior Mgmt's last bite at the concessions apple, you're crazy. This is only the beginning folks. When it's all said and done, if we're lucky enough to still be in business, our pay, benefits, and work rules will be nothing like they are now. Enjoy the ride! I'm trying like hell to get out before it REALLY hits the fan. And trust me, it WILL hit the fan like nothing you've seen yet.

 

[UAL_TECH]

The worst part about it is if anyone thinks this is UA Senior Mgmt's last bite at the concessions apple, you're crazy. This is only the beginning folks. When it's all said and done, if we're lucky enough to still be in business, our pay, benefits, and work rules will be nothing like they are now. Enjoy the ride! I'm trying like hell to get out before it REALLY hits the fan. And trust me, it WILL hit the fan like nothing you've seen yet.

[post="204546"][/post]​

Gee, do you really think so?
UT

 

[novaqt]

JungleClone:

"I'm trying like hell to get out".

<_< What's taking you so long??

 

[Borescope]

Most importantly Bus is that you should choose a profession that you have a passion for and not be so wrapped up in money and berating your peers.

[post="204535"][/post]​

Now that puts the whole picture in perspective Well said Capt.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I'm trying like hell to get out before it REALLY hits the fan.

jungleclone, why don't you fight instead of run away?

 

[Busdrvr]

Most importantly Bus is that you should choose a profession that you have a passion for and not be so wrapped up in money and berating your peers. You will be a much happier person.

[post="204535"][/post]​

Sounds a bunch like what Capt Getline told me.... No one is critisizing anyone for choosing a career in aviation, just critisizing you for being the type person who is destroying the career, especially when you have either a total lack of "SA" or worse yet "Class" that you'd come here with your "bar" drivel.

 

[kcabpilot]

When an employer states that you must have a 'passion' for aviation you can generally translate that into 'we ain't gonna pay you squat'

Now, when I hear people like Tilton or Brace or Hacker talking of aviation with words like pride, heritage and passion I can't help but gag....

 

[UAL_TECH]

When an employer states that you must have a 'passion' for aviation you can generally translate that into 'we ain't gonna pay you squat'

Now, when I hear people like Tilton or Brace or Hacker talking of aviation with words like pride, heritage and passion I can't help but gag....

[post="204807"][/post]​

kcabpilot,

But that is what talking heads do best!!!
Reminds me of 'Dancing Dan'...

They don't have a clue other than comparing first class seats to our competitors!

'Glory of Aviation!!!' ROTFLMAO!!!!

Take Care,
UAL_TECH