Organizing drives to oust the IAM 141

[Mr Eagle]

Changing UNION's Only Give's The COMPANY, Cost Nuetral Position's, Look @ What Happened to NWA, when AMFA took over, AMFA is Now Currently Selling Out The SFO UAL Maintenance & Overhaul Facility, (5,500) Mechanic's are Faced with Loosing there job's. :down: So Go a Head Give the COMPANY some time to REGROUP, DIVIDE the UNION's that are current. They Could Do The Same Thing that UAL is Doing GETTING RID of thier BASE Mechanic's & Farm the Heavy Check's out to South America,China,Hong Kong,Get the Picture Yet?.
The Heavy Check MX operation's That Were Performed BY AMERICAN's Are FADING. Stick With What Has Worked. Get Ready for the FORIEGN OWNER's They Are Coming, & Think about it {Will} they Maintain Thier Aircraft in America BY American's {NO} they Will Farm out the Heavy's To Third World Countries,Then Expect our Mechanic's to Build Quality into these A/C When they Return Back from the Third Party MX People With OUR LINE MX MECHNIC'S.
STICK WITH WHAT HAS WORKED IT COULD GET ALOT ROUGHER.

 

[GoldenRam94]

Changing UNION's Only Give's The COMPANY, Cost Nuetral Position's, Look @ What Happened to NWA, when AMFA took over, AMFA is Now Currently Selling Out The SFO UAL Maintenance & Overhaul Facility, (5,500) Mechanic's are Faced with Loosing there job's. :down: So Go a Head Give the COMPANY some time to REGROUP, DIVIDE the UNION's that are current. They Could Do The Same Thing that UAL is Doing GETTING RID of there BASE Mechanic's & Farm the Heavy Check's out to South America,China,Hong Kong,Get the Picture Yet.
The Heavy Check operation's That Were Performed BY AMERICAN's Are FADING. Stick With What Has Worked. Get Ready for the FORIEGN OWNER's They Are Coming, & Think about it Will they Maintain Thier Aircraft in America BY American's {NO} they Will Farm out the Heavy's To Third World Countries,Then Expect our Mechnic's to Build Quality into these A/C When they Return Back from the Third Party MX People.
STICK WITH WHAT HAS WORKED IT COULD GET ALOT ROUGHER.

You are correct Mr Eagle. Better to live with the Devil you know than the Devil you do not. Rather than get rid of the IAM, get rid of the loser's who are running the union, unless you are all afraid of Arms and his cronies.

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

You are correct Mr Eagle. Better to live with the Devil you know than the Devil you do not. Rather than get rid of the IAM, get rid of the loser's who are running the union, unless you are all afraid of Arms and his cronies.

Too bad for all of us again that will become victims of stupidity----

We collectively as a group must be some of the dumbest people alive----

Seriously---you people are screaming for a raise now-----If these cards are submitted to the NMB---you just gave the company at least another 1-3 years to give you absolutely nothing----for everything will come to a complete standstill until the whole situation is resolved----

Get ready for years of getting nothing and the most likely out come will be total decertification----Remember the NMB rules---50% + 1 of all eligible voters must participate in the election or the group will have no union---and there are already over 800 furloughed eligible voters included that will become votes for the company as most of these people will not participate---that means that even before the election, we are already 800+ votes in the hole---

Boy, Dougweiser is probably laughing all the way to the bar knowing that he will get many more years of cost-neutral for Fleet service and in the end will become your representative with the power to take-take-take anything they don't want you to have...

So, think long and hard about signing that card------Hey if status quo with no improvements for years is what you want, then by all means sign the card---just remember that if we vote-and are even lucky enough to win union representation----It will be years before you see 1 red cent or improvement to what you have now!----

:down:

 

[GoldenRam94]

Again, change the leadership of your union, not the union!

 

[Tim Nelson]

Again, change the leadership of your union, not the union!

Goldenram94,

That is what is being done, the union is changing the leadership of the union by removing the Collective bargaining agent called the I Am Management agent.

A few updates.

Jimmy Neutron is wrong and apparently ignorant on the facts. A card signup will most likely benefit workers in many ways. First and foremost, it will create competition between unions.

1. It will get the IAM off its butt and negotiate or the IAM will most assuredly not even have a chance of staying on the property. The IAM has NOT negotiated for the west or east in over 2 years. That's a fact. The IAM has not even flexed any muscle, therefore, the company is not compelled to do anything. These are the things we know and the IAM position is already clear on all the issues. Amazingly, the IAM wanted to extend the bankruptcy contract for an additional 2 years. The IAM is not on your side.

2. By replacing the IAM, it will actually expedite things and prepare fleet service for 'full blown' section 6 negotiations that are due to start taking place with the section 6 notice on Oct 31, 2008. Notice, this is the time to change the Collective Bargaining agent, the last thing anyone should want is Boss Canale, Hayden, Chandlee representing them for section 6 negotiations next October [13 months from now]. Also, signing cards also should force the IAM to finally schedule section 6 negotiations for the westies. Remember, the westies had 5 articles already signed off on with the TWU but then the IAM came in and shelved section 6 negotiations for the past 18 months.

3. Card campaigns and elections do not shelve negotiations. What Jimmy sez is a lie or words of ignorance. At any rate, exactly what negotiations is Jimmy talking about? The IAM isn't in section 6 negotiations, only transition negotiations and we have already seen that they are not negotiations at all. Fleet east must prepare for real negotiations in October 2008 and the time to do this is now.
I can tell you this till i'm blue in the face but the facts are actually on the NMB website. The IAM's duty is to enforce the TWU contract and enforce section 6 negotiations, regardless of campaign.
Remember, there wasn't even a campaign to oust the IAM until 7 days ago, yet the IAM did nothing for 2 years.
At any rate, the IAM is not enforcing anything right now anyways, neither is it in section 6 negotiations for the west or east. The IAM is fully engaged in transition talks and have not flexed any muscle, and they continue to hide the real numbers of any grievance award.

Process: IMO, the IBT and the IBEW will have sufficient showing of interest within 60 days. I can not speak for the IBEW, but the IBT campaign already has cards in the thousands without one piece of literature and without spending one dime. PHX, LAS, PHL, CLT already have cards in the hundreds in 'each' station, and I'd like for PHL to approach 1,000 by next weekend without spending a dime. To be sure, PHL is capable of 1,500+ cards but informational meetings will have to be established to pull in alot of the workers who have told us they would sign once they see a IBT committment. Once the Teamsters are mobilized and kick off the campaign I see nothing stopping the IBT from a 80% signup within 60 days. As far as the IBEW goes, I know they are approaching 1,000 cards already just in PHL and are developing committees elsewhere. Organizing hasn't ever been this easy.
IMO, the IBEW will have little problem getting on the ballot provided they can knock things out in 60 days.

In the meantime, the IAM can do all it wants to get a fair contract and save it's butt from getting thrown off the job. Nothing is stopping the IAM from doing its job. But they are crying that it now can't do its job because people are signing cards left and right. Puh leeessseee. Someone give Chandlee a hankerchief. He hasn't done his job ever even though nobody has gotten in his way.
Keep siging those cards and putting the 'heat' on the IAM.
Remember, the alternative is to sit and do nothing. The end result of that is another **** **** IAM contract, and more oppression for the eastern and western masses.

There are alot of lies going around that are spread by the IAM $100,000 club. At this time, the organizing drive is going exceptionally well and there is no need to address the lies on this forum. That will be for another time. We'd like to pick up 5,000 cards quick, then work on some of the stations where the lies are most abundant. Informational meetings will flush out alot of the bull crap so that everyone will stay informed.

regards,

 

[insp89]

Again, change the leadership of your union, not the union!

You have just stumbled upon the root of the problem with the IAM..

The officers of the IAM [AGC's and above] have a nice insulation blanket between themselves
and the membership, It's called the "slate"..

I would suggest that every IAM member get a copy of the IAM bylaws and constitution, and READ.

Hopefully, you are aware that the IAM membership at Usairways, are NOT the only IAM members
that vote for YOUR officers..

IAM members from Continential, Southwest and British Airways ALSO vote for YOUR IAM leadership..
[and IAM members at Usairways vote for these other airlines officers].

Why is the IAM structured this way ? It ensures the officers that get their name on the "slate",
a safe haven , out of reach from the votes of the IAM members that they REPRESENT.

 

[GoldenRam94]

Tim, you are being less than honest with the members on this board if you think a change of unions at this juncture is going to accomplish anything more than appeasing a few people. A new union means management has that much longer to force the rampers to work at managements whim, and it also puts the very real possibility of leading to a non-union job.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim, you are being less than honest with the members on this board if you think a change of unions at this juncture is going to accomplish anything more than appeasing a few people. A new union means management has that much longer to force the rampers to work at managements whim, and it also puts the very real possibility of leading to a non-union job.

The only one being appeased is the IAM and Parker who are appeasing themselves. We have to change that. I'm being brutally honest, so I guess you just differ from my view. At this juncture, I believe it is not only necessary but obligatory to remove Boss Canale, Chandlee, etc due to their ineptness and willingness to agree with Parker to extend the bankruptcy contract and throw the arbitration down Parker's john.
A change right now would be the right time. We already know we can't replace the IAM officers. We already know where the IAM stands. We've dealt with 13 years of IAM lies. Starting with the MDA scam, 1113 letters, and just recently had to go through a totally inept situation regarding the transition agreement where the IAM's Brickner and Boss Canale [both UA guys] wanted you to waive your rights to section 6 and agree to Parker's further oppression. The facts and performance beg a change and I would say the IAM's inadequate performance has brought on the present raids against them.

A new union means you are addressing the problems by positioning yourself for section 6 negotiations which will commence on October 31, 2008. The alternative would be to sit and do nothing and to allow another silly IAM sellout.

I'm not sure I follow how bringing in a new Collective Bargaining Agent [insert IBT or IBEW here] and positioning this union ahead of next year's section 6 openors is forcing workers to be a managements whim. It seems to me that this is forward thinking and is preparatory in nature. Please unpack for me what you mean by bringing in a new CBA forces workers to be at managements whim? Forcing workers at management's whim is keeping the IAM. To deny that is profane and delusional thinking.

As for the west, the IAM has been unresponsive to date. Dead on arrival is probably the best way to describe the IAM's treason against westies. Also, IMO, the company would like nothing better than for you to keep the IAM. Your contract is the best contract your company has ever seen. And the IAM wanted Parker to keep it and 'stick it to you' for another 2 years.

As far as the possibility of a decert. Your position is unsubstantiated and is opinion not based on facts. It is not very real like you say, quite the contrary historically. Consider the following.

1. The reason why decerts almost never happen in raids [i can only remember one raid, ever, that resulted in a decert out of hundreds of raids] is a direct result of who is doing the campaigning.
For instance, in a raid, the company is under contract to cooperate with the union [in this case, the IAM]. It will not be hiring Union busters and doing captive audience meetings because of article 1 in your contract. So without a company campaign against union, raids have had an unusually high success rate in the high 90's%. In other words, 99% of the time, a union wins, the only question will be which one.
So to come back to your fear of being decertified, no, you're wrong, there is not a very real possibility to this effect.

Kindly check the nmb.gov and you will see the history of raids. I scanned the full list and out of the hundreds that have been documented on their website I have not found one.

regards,

 

[orioleman]

Tim,
as always thanks for the info.. I know it takes time to do the research and reference the issues.. and I would like to thank you for that
alot of us appreciate your thoughts and views.. and most of them are unbiased ..

 

[isthisok]

I hear alot off chest beating going on. Just because you get alot of cards signed doesn't mean diddly squat. The history of this group tells the real story. When it comes to a vote on anything we are lucky to get 50% of the total membership to even participate. Look at the numbers for the participation of the whole membership on this last TA vote. Yeah we won but the rules were different in a agreement vote than a representation vote. You don't vote it don't count. You need 50%+1 of all those that actually vote. In a representation vote you need 50%+1 of all eligible voters to win. If you don't vote it is counted as a no vote, a vote for the company. Remember in a representation vote the company has an equal share in representation on the ballot. Those are facts.
Lets put out the numbers for the meeting attendance. This is where we show our real strength. In my city we are lucky to get 15 people at each meeting. And I can guarantee that no matter where you work there is some snitch running back to the company letting them know what goes on at these meetings. You show your strength in attendance numbers. We talk alot but our participation is poor. These fools running your union now have taken advantage of the non-participation as well as the company. They know they can do what they want because nobody is at the meetings to oppose them. One example is your union dues used to be a percentage of your hourly rate. The union says, Hey nobody goes to the meetings so we'll just slip a change in the bylaws when they are not looking and we can charge a flat rate no matter what you make. We don't have to do diddly and we get the same dues no matter what. If it is a percentage of your pay then they would fight for every penny but they don't have to do squat and they get the same dues.
Don't get me wrong I hate the IAM and loved it when I was a Teamster but you can get any union you want, if you don't show strength at the meetings you ain't got no strength. You better get 85% to 90% of eligible voters to sign cards or you show no strength in your attempt. I guarantee that there will be another TA and it will get voted through. They will put a little more icing on the cake and it will pass.

 

[PayParity]

Yeah we won but the rules were different in a agreement vote than a representation vote. You don't vote it don't count. You need 50%+1 of all those that actually vote. In a representation vote you need 50%+1 of all eligible voters to win. If you don't vote it is counted as a no vote, a vote for the company. Remember in a representation vote the company has an equal share in representation on the ballot. Those are facts.

In a representation vote you can only vote for representation. If you don't want representation you don't vote. A ballot voting against representation would be void

In a Telephone, Internet or Mail Vote.

You need 50% +1 of the eligible voters to vote for representation in a representation election. All that matters is did 50% +1 of the eligible voters cast a valid ballot for representation. You cannot cast a vote for no representation you cannot cast a vote for the Company you cannot vote for yourself. Those ballots would be voided. The voters ballot must show clear intent to vote for representation.

If a majority (50%+1) of eligible voters vote for representation then the organization or individual that received a majority of votes cast for representation will be certified as the representative even if that organization or individual did not receive votes from a majority of the craft or class.

When a majority of the eligible voters have cast valid ballots, but no single organization or individual has received a majority of the votes cast, a run-off election may be held.

In a run-off election, the ballot includes only the two representatives receiving the greater number of votes cast in the initial election, and does not include a space for write-in votes. The representative receiving the higher number of votes in the run-off is declared the winner even if fewer than a majority of the eligible employees cast run-off ballots.

Representation-Manual

 

[dexter]

Catch 22. Get on your representatives and tell them loud and clear no more DEALS!

 

[Tim Nelson]

I hear alot off chest beating going on. Just because you get alot of cards signed doesn't mean diddly squat. The history of this group tells the real story. When it comes to a vote on anything we are lucky to get 50% of the total membership to even participate. Look at the numbers for the participation of the whole membership on this last TA vote. Yeah we won but the rules were different in a agreement vote than a representation vote. You don't vote it don't count. You need 50%+1 of all those that actually vote. In a representation vote you need 50%+1 of all eligible voters to win. If you don't vote it is counted as a no vote, a vote for the company. Remember in a representation vote the company has an equal share in representation on the ballot. Those are facts.
Lets put out the numbers for the meeting attendance. This is where we show our real strength. In my city we are lucky to get 15 people at each meeting. And I can guarantee that no matter where you work there is some snitch running back to the company letting them know what goes on at these meetings. You show your strength in attendance numbers. We talk alot but our participation is poor. These fools running your union now have taken advantage of the non-participation as well as the company. They know they can do what they want because nobody is at the meetings to oppose them. One example is your union dues used to be a percentage of your hourly rate. The union says, Hey nobody goes to the meetings so we'll just slip a change in the bylaws when they are not looking and we can charge a flat rate no matter what you make. We don't have to do diddly and we get the same dues no matter what. If it is a percentage of your pay then they would fight for every penny but they don't have to do squat and they get the same dues.
Don't get me wrong I hate the IAM and loved it when I was a Teamster but you can get any union you want, if you don't show strength at the meetings you ain't got no strength. You better get 85% to 90% of eligible voters to sign cards or you show no strength in your attempt. I guarantee that there will be another TA and it will get voted through. They will put a little more icing on the cake and it will pass.

Isthisok,

four matters,
Item 1:Representation Election
I believe you are looking at this out of context. This representation election campaign to change unions is quite common and has happened hundreds of times under the RLA in which there is a 'raid' on a particular union. To rightly look at this situation you must recognize that this campaign is is one in which there is already a union on the property. That is significant but you may ask why? The reason why it is significant is because your company is under contract to cooperate with the union, likewise, your union is under contract not to strike. This is found in Article 1 of your contract. More importantly, what that means is that your company can't hire union busters and have captive audience meetings and fully engage in an anti union campaign. This is highly significant because the only campaigns will be those of the IBT, IBEW, IAM.
Historically, these campaigns have had a 99% success rate, in fact, I haven't even found one that has failed in the entire NMB database out of hundreds of cases that are on the public database of the NMB. OTOH, the winning % of union campaigns for those who don't have a union and their company is fully engaged with union busters, the results are less than 50%. I believe it makes 'good sense' that any such drive on this property has a 'very high %' of success, especially given that nobody that I have talked to trust Parker or even thinks much of him. Also, ALPA is also getting raided and my understanding is that the pilots are just 80 cards away now of filing for an election.

Item 2: % of cards needed

The IBT is not going to petition with just 50% of the cards. I think the number is 5,000 that they need or at least 65%. I've spoken with those who are representing the IBEW and they will also need around 5,000. THere is much work to do for both groups but I know the IBT campaign is somewhere between 2,000-3,000 cards in just 6 days. IMO, this thing will be petitioned within 30 days although my original prognosis was 60. THe bottom has fallen out of the IAM as it is now illegitimate. Further, I see no reason why those who want the IBT shouldn't sign an IBEW card. Although my preference is the IBT and I am on the IBT organizing Committee in ORD, I think it is better for the workers if there are more choices for them, and it also keeps each organization more accountable. I say, join a committee. I'd like it to be an IBT committee but if you chose to join the IBEW committee then I say great. I believe the greatest amount of particiaption would really position the winning group when it opens up section 6 negotiations next October for the east, and when it picks up where the TWU left off with their section 6 negotiations for the west immediately. Anyways, workers have to stay unified so I think the IBEW, and IBT committees have total respect for each other and realize they are still union brothers and sisters. Back in 1994 I think lessons were learned. The USWA and IBT got into a pissing match and the IAM never sought to solidify those workers to this day.

To that end, I offer apologies to Dave Lolly. I blew off some steam the other day on this board and made some comments to him. This can't be personal since we are all union brothers and sisters so even if Dave Lolly decides to support the IAM, we all [insert me here also] must treat each other with the dignity and respect that we each deserve. I think the workers deserve this. This doesn't mean that I believe Boss Canale is my union brother. He sits on the UA board of directors and his actions have been no less than profane. We must kick out United Airlines' & Parker's boys, Brickner and Canale, outside this craft and keep Parker from calling all the shots. My understanding is that these two are going to get a 'seriously' rude awakening at his union meeting in PHL next week.

item 3: Teamster Campaign

There seems to be some confusion that is being spread by lies that somehow the IBT doesn't want fleet service. This is a 100% lie. The IAM has spread alot of BS to spread fear since it can't stand on a darn thing that it actually did in 13 years other than lie to people and misled them. The IBT is fully aware of 'its' US AIRWAYS Fleet service campaign. They are fully aware and that goes all the way to the top of the IBT and Mr. Jimmy Hoffa, Jr. Just remember who is spreading the busybody lies. The IBT is also fully aware that it presently has over a 30% signup in just 6 or so days, without spending a dime. I assume the IBEW won't be far behind once it fully engages its committees coast to coast.

Item 4: ?
I forget the 4th item I was going to mention so maybe I'll come back to this. Anyways, I gotta jet right now.

At any rate, if you would like to join the IBT organizing committee, email me at:
appearances1@aol.com

regards,

 

[proud2bphilly]

Isthisok,

four matters,
Item 1:Representation Election,

MOD NOTE: DO NOT QUOTE ENTIRE POSTS in your replies, ESPECIALLY when you are responding to a post on the same page, or in close proximity.




tim, i was told that the ibt imposed a transition agreement on the customer service agents without the csa agents being able to vote on it. can you explain this please? also i heard that the value was far less than what the iam had negotiated for fleet service. can you also explain how an alliance between the cwa and the ibt benefits their members. that appears to be two unions that are just unwilling to give up the dues collection. from these members thank you

 

[Tim Nelson]

u
tim, i was told that the ibt imposed a transition agreement on the customer service agents without the csa agents being able to vote on it. can you explain this please? also i heard that the value was far less than what the iam had negotiated for fleet service. can you also explain how an alliance between the cwa and the ibt benefits their members. that appears to be two unions that are just unwilling to give up the dues collection. from these members thank you

proud2philly,

First off, the IBT did not have any dues payors at AWA airlines other than the mechanics, neither did the IBT actually have the CSA's under contract. They were at will, non contract people. Obviously, the IBT did not have the surviving contract so in each case [CSA's and M & R] it didn't have the 'juice' since it wasn't in the position of the IAM, CWA, ALPA.
I'm not privy to the CWA constitution but if there was a DFR or whatever then it would have certainly fell within the CWA's constitiion if any.

regards,