Obamacare Update!

[PHXConx]

How is their health care quality compared to those with no coverage?

Id rather be alive and owe, than dead and got free health coverage...

 

[SparrowHawk]

How is their health care quality compared to those with no coverage?

I don't know you tell me? This is a snippet I found (very quickly) from 2007.
 
 

Pine Ridge Statistics as of 2007

• Unemployment rate of 80-90%
• Per capita income of $4,000
• 8 Times the United States rate of diabetes
• 5 Times the United States rate of cervical cancer
• Twice the rate of heart disease
• 8 Times the United States rate of Tuberculosis
• Alcoholism rate estimated as high as 80%
• 1 in 4 infants born with fetal alcohol syndrome or effects
• Suicide rate more than twice the national rate
• Teen suicide rate 4 times the national rate
• Infant mortality is three times the national rate
• Life expectancy on Pine Ridge is the lowest in the United States and the 2nd lowest in the Western Hemisphere. Only Haiti has a lower rate.

So then how is all that government "caring" working out for the once proud Lakota Nation? Doesn't look so good does it.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

How is that representative of society as a whole and as it pertains to Obamacare? Where is all your liberty and personal responsibility with this?

 

[Ms Tree]

Id rather be alive and owe, than dead and got free health coverage...

Can those who can't afford to pay go to the same doctors that those who can afford to pay? My brother in law had to have over $1,000,000 dollars in heart surgery care at 85 yrs old. He has AARP and medicare. How would anyone much less and 87 yr old pay that back with out insurance? Do you think he would have received the same level of care with out insurance or the ability to pay?

 

[Ms Tree]

I don't know you tell me? This is a snippet I found (very quickly) from 2007.
 
 

Pine Ridge Statistics as of 2007

• Unemployment rate of 80-90%
• Per capita income of $4,000
• 8 Times the United States rate of diabetes
• 5 Times the United States rate of cervical cancer
• Twice the rate of heart disease
• 8 Times the United States rate of Tuberculosis
• Alcoholism rate estimated as high as 80%
• 1 in 4 infants born with fetal alcohol syndrome or effects
• Suicide rate more than twice the national rate
• Teen suicide rate 4 times the national rate
• Infant mortality is three times the national rate
• Life expectancy on Pine Ridge is the lowest in the United States and the 2nd lowest in the Western Hemisphere. Only Haiti has a lower rate.

So then how is all that government "caring" working out for the once proud Lakota Nation? Doesn't look so good does it.

Damn. Those dumb Natives should go out and buy insurance.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Or take responsibility for their health.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Damn. Those dumb Natives should go out and buy insurance.

WHY?
 
They are covered under the Indian Health System.
 
The plight of Pine Ridge falls directly at the feet of the do-gooder progressive who in their well intentioned desire to help have subjected an entire reservation to a live of dependency on Government. The results of those good intention speak for themselves.

 

[Ms Tree]

What is your proposed solution?

We have screwed over the Natives for hundreds of years. How do you propose we fix the situation?

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

You will get no proposed solutions from him. All you will hear is "don't blame me, I voted for Ron Paul".

 

[SparrowHawk]

What is your proposed solution?

We have screwed over the Natives for hundreds of years. How do you propose we fix the situation?

 
I'm not 100% for sure that Pine Ridge is one but many reservations don't allow for individual ownership of land.
 
1. Restoration or creation of private property rights. Pride of ownership can work miracles, Create a modern day version of "Forty Acres & a Mule" within the tribal land.
 
2. As part of Private Property Rights make the law include that any oil or mineral rights belong to the Tribal Council and NOT the Department of the Interior. Control of the Mineral rights gives the tribe a revenue stream that they control.
 
These are but 2 of the things that would need to happen in order for the other pieces of the puzzle to be fit in.
 
3. Tribal council setting up small businesses using tribe members. As part of this effort, the tribe would be exempt from minimum wage laws. The residents need money and $5/hr is better then nothing. It allows the tribe to begin a modest economic base from which to grow.
 
The road back will be long with setbacks along the way. The feds should eventually fund nothing. But after 100 years of the Nanny State you can't just up and leave, it has to be gradual transfer or roles from public to private ventures. Additionally, there would need to be a strengthening of Tribal Sovereignty and Autonomy

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Maybe you should start an Indians (native americans) been wronged thread. Way too much to discuss away from the Obamacare debate.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Maybe you should start an Indians (native americans) been wronged thread. Way too much to discuss away from the Obamacare debate.

 
The only reason I brought up Pine Ridge is that it is a classic example of how 100 years of government largess has done nothing to improve the situation.
 
Obama Care is a similar thing. Without a lot of fan fare the industry has changed and not to the better for the patient.

 

[Ms Tree]

I'm not 100% for sure that Pine Ridge is one but many reservations don't allow for individual ownership of land.
 
1. Restoration or creation of private property rights. Pride of ownership can work miracles, Create a modern day version of "Forty Acres & a Mule" within the tribal land.
 
2. As part of Private Property Rights make the law include that any oil or mineral rights belong to the Tribal Council and NOT the Department of the Interior. Control of the Mineral rights gives the tribe a revenue stream that they control.
 
These are but 2 of the things that would need to happen in order for the other pieces of the puzzle to be fit in.
 
3. Tribal council setting up small businesses using tribe members. As part of this effort, the tribe would be exempt from minimum wage laws. The residents need money and $5/hr is better then nothing. It allows the tribe to begin a modest economic base from which to grow.
 
The road back will be long with setbacks along the way. The feds should eventually fund nothing. But after 100 years of the Nanny State you can't just up and leave, it has to be gradual transfer or roles from public to private ventures. Additionally, there would need to be a strengthening of Tribal Sovereignty and Autonomy

Most Native cultures are nomadic. They Do not believe in property ownership. That may have changed over time due to the white man's influence but it is still not natural their culture or religious beliefs.

 

[Ms Tree]

The only reason I brought up Pine Ridge is that it is a classic example of how 100 years of government largess has done nothing to improve the situation.
 
Obama Care is a similar thing. Without a lot of fan fare the industry has changed and not to the better for the patient.

You don't think disdain and hate for Native Americans has a y thing to do with the failure of the programs 'designed' to help them?

The programs designed by the white man are for the white man. They are not and have not been designed with the Native Americans in mind. They were nomadic non - Christians (I believe the term was heathens) so they were completely different from us.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Most Native cultures are nomadic. They Do not believe in property ownership. That may have changed over time due to the white man's influence but it is still not natural their culture or religious beliefs.

OK? So who doesn't know this? The Reservations that have allowed for private property rights have seen their situation improve.
 
The native tribes also didn't have cars, but they seemed to have adjusted to that so why not Private Property such as land?
 
The tribes of the 1880's no longer exist. Even from the beginning the tribes themselves were divided by those who tried to maintain the traditional ways and those who became known as "Hangers around the Fort" 
 
What has happened in Pine Ridge is not new or unusual. This article gives a broad overveiw of "Cargo Cults" and it's easy to see how the tribes got sucked in. Not totally the same way, but close enough.