NWA mechanics to rally at Capital on Monday

[Bagbelt]

I think this conversation has changed my position a bit. I agree with you that if your position is no longer available in the city in which you reside, then it is a de facto layoff regardless of seniority, and unemployment benefits do seem appropriate.

I would revise my assertion to be that those mechanics that were working in a station that still employ mechanics (hubs) should not be eligible for benefits, since they had the choice of showing up to work and continuing to be employed the day the strike began. Those are the mechanics that indeed did have a choice, and are now unemployed through their own willing action. Only if NWA refused to allow the mechanic to cross the picket line due to not needing that person should a mechanic in this category be eligible for benefits.

It's not a black and white issue, so I'm not sure why you would not welcome debate on an issue that you are obviously passionate about. I understand if you choose to not respond, but I would welcome your feedback on my revised stance. I think you make sound arguments, evidenced by my concession to you above on the outstation issue.

This is one of those few issues that while under the railway labor act also speaks to individual state unemployment plans. Past precedent would mean that while you are willfully withholding work, you cannot also be compelled to cross a picket line in a legal strike. In MA you would be eligible for unemployment and retraining. I'm sure other state courts have ruled otherwise, but since it's a state issue it would be the luck of the draw. I think business schools would do well to look at the ESOP plans of NW and UA, trading wage gains for the promise of easy money through stock plans blew up in their face. This poisoned employee relations to the point where any chance of good faith negotiations had no chance.

 

[UAL_TECH]

You know, I can hardly get through reading these posts... not just in this thread, but in the last five or six in this forum. Most of you have just about nothing to say that's of substance... I'd like to go count how many times you each say 'SCAB' and 'SUPERSCAB' and go on and on... do you realize how stupid this makes you all look? Only a few of you have even kept these threads moving by actually writing something of meaning. I've supported the striking workers of NW in the past, but as I read all these posts, I'm not so sure.

JMHO, Most of these posters are not AMFA members and you are assuming that all are.

If 'this' site is your insight into what is happening at NWA and now you will no longer support the NWA AMFA M&R then you haven't a clue to begin with.

B) UT

 

[PlayTheOdds]

JMHO, Most of these posters are not AMFA members and you are assuming that all are.
If 'this' site is your insight into what is happening at NWA and now you will no longer support the NWA AMFA M&R then you haven't a clue to begin with.
B) UT

Why shouldn't this site be someone’s "insight" as to what is happening at NWA? I think it is very well suited to be just that. I think it is a great site for people to come to and get an idea of what’s going on at NWA. They get to hear it directly from the people involved that are down in the trenches and other peoples input that are from the industry. That is after all what this forum is for isn't it? Have you ever paid attention to the number of guests that visit this site and read through what all we have to say? They far out number the members. I think that if he read through the threads here he has a very good "clue" as to what is going on.

 

[Red Tail Bear]

Quote; PTO
I think that if he read through the threads here he has a very good "clue" as to what is going on.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I think that all depends on whose posts he's reading.The ones who are telling it like it is. ie. (the people who have actually worked in the industry for many years)OR the Johnnie come lately's who have a knack of twisting the facts to fit their agendas. :glare:

Can you think of anyone who might fit that description there PTO? 😉

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Can you think of anyone who might fit that description there PTO? 😉

No I cannot. How about yourself?
Granted you would have to do a lot of wading through a bunch of unionized anti-scab rhetoric but everything that anyone would want to know about this strike is here.

 

[Red Tail Bear]

Come on now PTO think real hard. OK nevermind I'll give you a hint.

Look in the mirror!

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

No I cannot. How about yourself?
Granted you would have to do a lot of wading through a bunch of unionized anti-scab rhetoric but everything that anyone would want to know about this strike is here.

=========================================================

Quote: "Anti-SCAB rhetoric"


PTO,

You (Seriously) mean that there's such a thing as
"PRO-SCAB" ?????????? :down: :down: :down:

I swear, It makes ZERO LOGICAL sense, that any Individual such as yourself, who, is the equivelent of(Lower than) MAGGOT FECES, the scourge of ANY society, would "gleefully" parade around, shouting, "LOOK AT ME,I'm a SCAB for Dougie Stealin/Neil Coh-en *UCK Yourself"..........."See how SMART I am" !!!!!!!!!

Tell me truthfully PTO, are you REALLY that "Uneducated",....That IGNORANT ??


You ABSOLUTELY DEFY LOGIC !!!

You ARE to be PITY/ED :blink: :blink: :blink:


NH/BB's

 

[finman]

=========================================================

Quote: "Anti-SCAB rhetoric"
PTO,

You (Seriously) mean that there's such a thing as
"PRO-SCAB" ?????????? :down: :down: :down:

I would presume that any reader of this board who was not a die-hard union member would actually be leaning "pro-scab" by now. It's pretty tough to take the side of an ideology that seems to promote the spewing of such illogical hatred.

 

[groundcontrol]

I would presume that any reader of this board who was not a die-hard union member would actually be leaning "pro-scab" by now. It's pretty tough to take the side of an ideology that seems to promote the spewing of such illogical hatred.

YEA... you just said a bunch of nothing....except that you are obviously PRO-SCAB :down: , and don't even insult our inteligence by leading us to believe you are so from reading this board :angry:

PEOPLE SOMETIMES SPEAK WITHOUT THINKING. AS THE OLD SAYING GOES,"MOST OF US KNOW HOW TO SAY NOTHING. FEW OF US KNOW WHEN." <_<

 

[finman]

YEA... you just said a bunch of nothing....except that you are obviously PRO-SCAB :down: , and don't even insult our inteligence by leading us to believe you are so from reading this board :angry:

PEOPLE SOMETIMES SPEAK WITHOUT THINKING. AS THE OLD SAYING GOES,"MOST OF US KNOW HOW TO SAY NOTHING. FEW OF US KNOW WHEN." <_<

I'm pro capitalism, so I guess that may indirectly make me pro-scab. Before reading these posts I had a slightly negative opinion of unions solely due to their often inefficient nature. Since I started posting here, I have to constantly remind myself that the majority of members on this site do not represent the union population as a whole.

I would implore those of sound mind that do make reasoned arguments on this board to denounce the filth and name-calling that often deligitimizes their positions. If someone that's on the same side of an argument as you enters into a hate-filled rant, wouldn't your arguments be more substantive if you make it known that those person's views are not your own, to prevent those views from tarnishing the legitimacy of the message? If you don't, then it generally implies complicity to those views, as unfair as that may be.

 

[PhxMama]

This board is not a courtroom and its pretty anonymous. It serves several purposes and these posters are venting against lost jobs and livlihoods. There are real american families with babies and children that need to pay bills and these employees proudly did their jobs for many years. They are not on here to educate or sway your opinion. They are posting what they feel when they see their profession and wages thruout an industry being destroyed. I do understand your point but they do not post for your benefit. Sometimes you need to understand the issues before you can judge someone else. I am not trying at all to keep you from reading these posts or joining in as several different points of view are always welcome. Just try to put yourself in their shoes and see both sides. Hopefully you'll form opinions of these issues on more than just these posts. Regards.

 

[groundcontrol]

well said PHXMAMA....

 

[finman]

This board is not a courtroom and its pretty anonymous. It serves several purposes and these posters are venting against lost jobs and livlihoods. There are real american families with babies and children that need to pay bills and these employees proudly did their jobs for many years. They are not on here to educate or sway your opinion. They are posting what they feel when they see their profession and wages thruout an industry being destroyed. I do understand your point but they do not post for your benefit. Sometimes you need to understand the issues before you can judge someone else. I am not trying at all to keep you from reading these posts or joining in as several different points of view are always welcome. Just try to put yourself in their shoes and see both sides. Hopefully you'll form opinions of these issues on more than just these posts. Regards.

You make some good points. But don't people generally, after the age of 10 or so, move away from name-calling and yelling to more reasoned and civil discourse?

I certainly feel for those that lost their jobs through no fault of their own, but a certain job in a certain city with a certain pay rate is not an entitlement. If the value of the service provided to the employer is less than the compensation provided to the employee, something has to give. Obviously it's a painful correction process, but I certainly don't blame the replacement mechanics for siezing an opportunity to make a good life at a major carrier. Wages will naturally creep back up as the supply of mechanics balances out with the demand.

As for AMFA hardship, those striking members must have been able to make more money elsewhere, otherwise they wouldn't have gone on strike knowing full well that replacements were on standby to take over. So on that front, I guess I just don't buy all of the gloom and doom and misery that supposedly has occurred as a result of this strike.

As it relates to the current NWA employees, that's an entirely different matter. There certainly is going to be financial hardship as these wage reductions are implemented, and that will be felt by everyone. I think a lot of anger gets misdrirected in those discussions. The red herring, of course, is evil executives that pay themselves too much, and if only they didn't do that then there wouldn't need to be pay cuts. The real anger should be directed at the consumer, who greedily flies on whichever airline charges the lowest fare. I suppose it's easier to blame "scabs" and Steenland for all of ones problems then to face the reality of a market driven economy.

 

[wonderboy]

I'm pro capitalism, so I guess that may indirectly make me pro-scab. Before reading these posts I had a slightly negative opinion of unions solely due to their often inefficient nature. Since I started posting here, I have to constantly remind myself that the majority of members on this site do not represent the union population as a whole.

I would implore those of sound mind that do make reasoned arguments on this board to denounce the filth and name-calling that often deligitimizes their positions. If someone that's on the same side of an argument as you enters into a hate-filled rant, wouldn't your arguments be more substantive if you make it known that those person's views are not your own, to prevent those views from tarnishing the legitimacy of the message? If you don't, then it generally implies complicity to those views, as unfair as that may be.

I have read your post carefully and thoughtfully Mr. Finman. I have allowed the process of democracy and freedom of speech to takes its' rightful course. Now, after examining the post from all aspects and points of view, I am very sorry to have to say, I totally DENOUNCE your idealogy. I am very dismayed to learn that, someone who supposedly feels so strongly and dedicated to aviation, would now start promoting the "bottom feeder" mentality. That is extremely sad and unfortunate of you. The thought of someone stealing or trying to rob one of his rightful job is not a virtuous task. There is no glory attached to it, regardless of what corporate America or potential job stealers would like to have us believe. You never know what may lie up the road for yourself. This is a sad day for all of aviation. To all scabs, or potential ones at that, I say, "Make My Day".

well said PHXMAMA....

May I second that! Thank-you Phxmama!

 

[finman]

I am very dismayed to learn that, someone who supposedly feels so strongly and dedicated to aviation, would now start promoting the "bottom feeder" mentality. That is extremely sad and unfortunate of you.

I apologize, but I have no idea what you're talking about. What is the "bottom feeder" mentality that I was promoting in the post you replied to.

Also, what is a "rightful job". Nobody has a "right" to a particular job. They must earn it and continue to perform to keep a particular job. My copy of the bill of rights doesn't include this right you speak of.