Non Rev Travel Planner
- Thread starter nycbusdriver
- Start date
jimntx
Veteran
Just FYI, American Airlines does NOT recognize fatigue as a valid reason for trip removal. There is nothing in case law and/or legislation that supports it. Just because US Airways may have allowed flight attendants to do it, doesn't mean there is legal support for such action.. If an AA f/a tries to call in fatigued, and subsequently does not show up at the airport at sign-in time, it is a missed trip--a sin second only to a f/a calling in sick in the first place. So many missed trips and the f/a is outtahere. APFA and AFA have tried for years to get something in the law or FARs to allow fatigue as a valid reason for trip removal. Besides if the f/a's health is so delicate that he/she is fatigued from having had to get up a couple of hours early one morning the day before leaving on a personal trip, there are bigger problems than checkin for FCFS..bigbear52 said:
In my vast career of almost 14 years I have never heard an AA employee complain that they are not well because they had to get up early to get checked-in for a non-rev trip. That is really grasping at straws.
Why do I support it? Because it IS the more fair way of doing it. Anyone with less than 20-25 years would never get on a plane as a non-rev if seniority ruled. Not only are there many very senior employees (especially among the flight attendants), it's getting difficult for even them to get on a flight. I worked a flight just the other day, DFW-ATL. There were over 50 people on the standby list, and the first non-rev on the list was #44. The rest were revenue passengers who ALWAYS take precedence. I just flew with a commuting f/a who has 32 years. She was telling me that she was staying in DFW for the 3-days between our trip and her next trip. She said that the flights between DFW and her home city (and we have 9xday, smallest a/c, MD-80) were so overbooked that she didn't dare risk not being able to get back for her next trip.
And, what pray tell does FCFS have to do with my schedule or my vacation bidding? I'm junior enough (and 70 years old) that I will never get the plum work or vacation schedules that others covet. I bid my vacation in February; so, I can be guaranteed time off during ski season. (Don't know about LUS, but at LAA, there is not a lot of competition for the first two weeks of February as vacation time.). Besides that, bidding your vacation for the summer months at any airline seems to me to just be asking for doing a lot of sitting at the airport being rolled over to the next flight to your destination. It's downright masochistic.
jimntx
Veteran
There's just nothing at AA that meets your standards, is there? Why don't you admit that you just don't like to have to put forth any effort to utilize your travel benefits? Well, it's been decided how the NR travel benefits will be made available. I guess you're just going to have to live with it.Pi brat said:
The people doing the checking in aren't going to complain, they would be flagging themselves for disrupting their rest. How many times have you heard crew members say "I had to set my clock at...." In the short time we've had FCFS I've heard it a lot.jimntx said:Just FYI, American Airlines does NOT recognize fatigue as a valid reason for trip removal. There is nothing in case law and/or legislation that supports it. Just because US Airways may have allowed flight attendants to do it, doesn't mean there is legal support for such action.. If an AA f/a tries to call in fatigued, and subsequently does not show up at the airport at sign-in time, it is a missed trip--a sin second only to a f/a calling in sick in the first place. So many missed trips and the f/a is outtahere. APFA and AFA have tried for years to get something in the law or FARs to allow fatigue as a valid reason for trip removal. Besides if the f/a's health is so delicate that he/she is fatigued from having had to get up a couple of hours early one morning the day before leaving on a personal trip, there are bigger problems than checkin for FCFS..
In my vast career of almost 14 years I have never heard an AA employee complain that they are not well because they had to get up early to get checked-in for a non-rev trip. That is really grasping at straws.
Why do I support it? Because it IS the more fair way of doing it. Anyone with less than 20-25 years would never get on a plane as a non-rev if seniority ruled. Not only are there many very senior employees (especially among the flight attendants), it's getting difficult for even them to get on a flight. I worked a flight just the other day, DFW-ATL. There were over 50 people on the standby list, and the first non-rev on the list was #44. The rest were revenue passengers who ALWAYS take precedence. I just flew with a commuting f/a who has 32 years. She was telling me that she was staying in DFW for the 3-days between our trip and her next trip. She said that the flights between DFW and her home city (and we have 9xday, smallest a/c, MD-80) were so overbooked that she didn't dare risk not being able to get back for her next trip.
And, what pray tell does FCFS have to do with my schedule or my vacation bidding? I'm junior enough (and 70 years old) that I will never get the plum work or vacation schedules that others covet. I bid my vacation in February; so, I can be guaranteed time off during ski season. (Don't know about LUS, but at LAA, there is not a lot of competition for the first two weeks of February as vacation time.). Besides that, bidding your vacation for the summer months at any airline seems to me to just be asking for doing a lot of sitting at the airport being rolled over to the next flight to your destination. It's downright masochistic.
What if you're flying at the 24 hr point?
How did any junior person get on an airplane at LUS? Our load factors were as high as AA's.
My idea was to make it seniority, but give people vacation passes by inverse seniority, with the junior folks would have better opportunities without a screwed up system. That or allow an app to sign you in at a selected time. Then it would be a true lottery. More fair than those with fast fingers.
EastCheats
Veteran
- Mar 12, 2012
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Pi brat said:
So, you are saying can't get 8 hours of sleep after you check in? It appears the AA folks have been safely checking in for years.
Not if they aren't 8 hours available after the check in time.EastCheats said:So, you are saying can't get 8 hours of sleep after you check in? It appears the AA folks have been safely checking in for years.
Do you like FCFS? Again, why not make it a straight lottery? Say 10 hours out spin the wheel and see who gets on.
EastCheats
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- Mar 12, 2012
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Pi brat said:
I've used both systems. There are pluses and minuses to both. I was fine with FCFS with HP, the policy changed to DOH with US and I had no problems adapting to the new policy. It's the resistance to change thingy which is at the root of the problem
Fair enough. We'll adapt, and as I said, I don't think it will change.EastCheats said:
I've used both systems. There are pluses and minuses to both. I was fine with FCFS with HP, the policy changed to DOH with US and I had no problems adapting to the new policy. It's the resistance to change thingy which is at the root of the problem
I don't have a problem with FCFS, I just don't like the system and procedures that run it.
Black Magic
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- Jan 4, 2008
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Yes but at HP and US we never had to compete against spouses, reg guests, and kids. The D2 pool is huge!EastCheats said:I've used both systems. There are pluses and minuses to both. I was fine with FCFS with HP, the policy changed to DOH with US and I had no problems adapting to the new policy. It's the resistance to change thingy which is at the root of the problem
People that have never tried seniority boarding think there are just droves of senior people bumping you at the last minute. In reality if you had at least 8 years of service you were towards or at the top of the list 90% of the time on avg on US.
EastCheats
Veteran
- Mar 12, 2012
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Black Magic said:
I see your point and the resistance cuts both ways. The question remains whether or not you can convince the company to review the policy? First, you would have to convince those who have never tried the seniority route to get on board.
I doubt that would happen but who knows?
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jimntx
Veteran
It's not the sleep issue and we all know it. It's someone with advanced seniority who doesn't like the idea of not being able to bump people out of the boarding line.EastCheats said:
So, you are saying can't get 8 hours of sleep after you check in? It appears the AA folks have been safely checking in for years.
jimntx
Veteran
As EastCheats so accurately put it...you're going to have to convince a large number of people who prefer FCFS to change their position in order to even get the company to review the policy. Tain't gonna happen. As the saying goes, you can accept life on life's terms or you can make yourself miserable by living in the world of "it should be." In the meantime, don't whine. Nobody cares.
In relation to "it should be" always remember that after 5000 years of fighting among those Semitic first cousins, there should be peace in the MIddle East, but there's just not.
In relation to "it should be" always remember that after 5000 years of fighting among those Semitic first cousins, there should be peace in the MIddle East, but there's just not.
