Nobody Knows

[Twicebaked]

Since the other thread was closed, I will respond here. 787 assumes that AWA will be the acquiring airline. Nobody and I mean NOBODY at this point in the game knows who is aquiring whom. Every news article that you read says something different. 787 is trying to stir a pot when it isn't even an issue yet. He is crying about US seniority issue and implies (I could be wrong) that AWA employees need to protect their seniority. If US acquires AWA, will he be singing the same tune?
Either way, seniority should be integrated by date of hire regardless of who acquires whom. An AWA pilot or f/a may say stick US at the bottom, but if US acquires them, they would cry foul if it was done to them. This is not going to be easy. We don't need outsiders (787) giving their 2 cents of ancient history. As someone stated before, we have no say in what is going on. All employees have alot at risk. Don't feed fuel to the fire.

 

[trvlr64]

Since the other thread was closed, I will respond here. 787 assumes that AWA will be the acquiring airline. Nobody and I mean NOBODY at this point in the game knows who is aquiring whom. Every news article that you read says something different. 787 is trying to stir a pot when it isn't even an issue yet. He is crying about US seniority issue and implies (I could be wrong) that AWA employees need to protect their seniority. If US acquires AWA, will he be singing the same tune?
Either way, seniority should be integrated by date of hire regardless of who acquires whom. An AWA pilot or f/a may say stick US at the bottom, but if US acquires them, they would cry foul if it was done to them. This is not going to be easy. We don't need outsiders (787) giving their 2 cents of ancient history. As someone stated before, we have no say in what is going on. All employees have alot at risk. Don't feed fuel to the fire.

[post="264043"][/post]​

Twice you are so right! Employees on this board and customers on Flyertalk are going off the deep end with all this "future" squabbling. No one knows what is going to happen until it's truely announced. I'm laughing at all the speculation and worry.

Relax people. Why worry about an unknown future?

 

[DCAflyer]

Twice you are so right!  Employees on this board and customers on Flyertalk are going off the deep end with all this "future" squabbling.  No one knows what is going to happen until it's truely announced.  I'm laughing at all the speculation and worry. 

Relax people.  Why worry about an unknown future?

[post="264046"][/post]​

And if I could just add my two cents, if this all comes to fruition, I don't think we will see much reduction in flying because there are very few routes that overlap. What I think we will see is a change in the way we fly, i.e., more point-to-point flying.

As for staffing, AWA has been through the wringer and, thankfully, has gotten out of it. UAIR is still there, still struggling with bad management, through no fault of the employees. In fact, the only reason UAIR is still around is through the dedication of its employees (which, or course, bugs the crap out of employees of AA, UA and DAL who seem to think they have some devine right to UAIR's northeast routes, gates, and slots). I want to point out that pre-9/11, US Airways won award after award for its customer service, first-class service, and overall product. Our aircraft were always clean and well-maintained and the employees went out of their way to provide an awesome product.

We have a dedicated customer base who are every bit as frustrated with our our management as we are.

But I submit that both the current AWA and UAIR have a lot to learn from each other. We can make this work. We can become the Brady Bunch of airline mergers, and we can grow stronger from it. We can forge new, meaningful relationships with the current work forces of the other airline. We are not the self-centered employees of UAL or AA. Remember UAL employees wanted to file suit during merger discussions, even though union by-laws required seniority integration, to staple UAIR employees to the bottom. I understand there was even a movement by some UAL flight attendants to decertify AFA and form their own union so they won't have to integrte seniority. And what AA did to the TWA people is nothing short of disgusting... these were people with sometimes 35 years of experience and put up with management and ownership that raped and pilliaged the airline. It was not TWA's employees' fault what happened to that once great and bohemoth airline... it was the greed of a few people with no conscience and no sense of right or wrong, and not caring what they were doing to tens of thousands of hard-working dedicated employees who had invested their lives in the airline.

Getting back to us. Both airlines have a lot to offer. UAIR has a stong east-coast presence, many European destinations, and has enjoyed amazing growth in the past couple of years in the Carribean and South American markets. It also has coveted DCA and LGA slots and STAR alliance membership. AWA has a strong west-coast presence, DCA long-haul slots, and a strong Mexico presence.

Together, a combined UAIR/AWA might build on each other's strengths to open European markets from PHX and LAS, might open Hawaiian markets to both coasts (including inter-island small jet service), Asian markets into PHX, and even Australian service. We can build further South American growth from the East Coast. All of this, of course, will take time. But more importantly, it will take dedication from the collective employees of both airlines with an eye at creating the best airline in the world. This is an opportunity to create a "right-sized" airline which is in a position to grow into new markets when the time is right.

I know we can do it. We are better than those AA people and those UAL people who would sell their own mothers down the river to protect their precious seniority. (Ask yourself why they are coming onto your board to rile you up... just like they come onto US Airway' board to rile us up!) I don't want to see any airline employees lose their jobs because of industry consolidation, but consolidation is inevitable and we can marry and get our house in order. The current proposal to bring together an east coast airline, and all its strengths, together with a west coast airline, and all its strengths, provides the best, and possibly only opportunity for the front-line employees to protect most front-line jobs, build a strong airline and a great product. The AA and UAL people would argue and have you believe that UAIR has no strength... but that is simply not true. If we didn't, we would no longer be here. Remember there were predictions that we would be gone by the end of 2001... then mid-2002, then the end of 2002, then the end of 2003, then June of 2004 and the end of 2004. Now they are saying by September. Guess what, we're still here... hopping along in some instances, but still here.

Much has been said about US Air's purchase of PSA and its losses from the west coast market. But I submit that the concept, back then and now, was a good one. What happened was a poor execution of the merger, in terms of fleet types, crew pay, and running from Southwest when they began service into California. Running from your competition never makes you stronger. That's not what is happening here. Costs of doing business have been lowered, by both airlines and that puts us in a position to go head-to-head with Southwest and others. And with the strengths of an enhanced yet larger network, the sky's the limit. Also, from the looks of things, the inept UAIR management will be gone, and people sincerely interested in managing and growing an airline will be at the helm.

Let's make this work. Let's show the world we can create a world-class, cost-effective INTERNATIONAL airline that people will flock to. Let's show the UAL and AA people who are trying now to divide us that they are doing it in vein. We are better than they are. And we will prove it!

 

[Winglet]

AWA will survive on its own without US Airways.

It's very highly doubtful that US Airways will survive on its own given the circus clowns that are running it.

What does that tell you about who needs who.

AWA employees need to be very very careful. In the unlikely even that this "deal" is agreed to by the money guys, management and especially the U labor unions are going to try and give you the bum's rush to do a deal RIGHT NOW, with a "Don't bother looking at the fine print."

The industry needs to consolidate, and it also need to shrink it's ASM. Make sure it's not you that does the shrinking, with U employees taking your jobs.

This deal is fraught with peril to AWA, and is last ditch for U.

 

[B6Busdriver]

AWA will survive on its own without US Airways.

It's very highly doubtful that US Airways will survive on its own given the circus clowns that are running it.

What does that tell you about who needs who.

AWA employees need to be very very careful. In the unlikely even that this "deal" is agreed to by the money guys, management and especially the U labor unions are going to try and give you the bum's rush to do a deal RIGHT NOW, with a "Don't bother looking at the fine print."

The industry needs to consolidate, and it also need to shrink it's ASM. Make sure it's not you that does the shrinking, with U employees taking your jobs.

This deal is fraught with peril to AWA, and is last ditch for U.

[post="264222"][/post]​

Really? Dave Parker says HP will face a liquidity crisis by the end of the year. HP might be doing better than U but that really isn't aying a whole lot.

 

[aafsc]

DCAFlyer is in the same position that the TWA people were in. He is, like they were, desperate. He is saying the same thing that the TWA people were saying. When the TWA/AA deal was announced, I can clearly remember the TWA people saying "we don't want to take anything (any seniority) from the AA people. They even gave up their seniority protections in court. But once the AA/TWA deal was closed, they immediately demanded their seniority back. They have filed grieveance after grievance and lawsuit after lawsuit.If the TWA people would have kept all their seniority everwhere, everyone laid off would have been an AA employee and NO TWA people would have been laid off. By the way, DCAFlyer, The ramp/mechanics went to binding arbitration, so in effect the TWAers got their allegheny/mohawk (mandatory arbitration) provisions restored and the arbitrator fenced the two groups off. America West people beware, people like DCAFlyer are talking nice now, but once/if the deal goes through and it is finalized they will want your best bases (after all PHX and LAS is much more desirable than PHL, LGA BOS, and DCA), your best trip lines, and your best vacations and days off. I can tell you this from experience. And remember their US seniority is very high compared to yours so in effect you will be stapled below them. If I were you and this went through, I would demand that fences be placed between the two groups. At AA, the ex-TWA people have their full seniority in STL and MCI (former TWA bases) and 25% of their TW seniority at some cities and a 4/10/01 seniority date (date that AA officially took over TWA's assets) in all other cities. In the US/HP case the US people can have their full seniority in their bases (PHL, CLT, BOS, DCA, LGA, etc) but have a seniority date that equals the merger date in PHX and LAS. So say if they merge on June 1, 2005, then that will be the adjusted seniority date for US employees who transfer to PHX and LAS and vice versa for HP employees who go to a US base.

 

[hp_fa]

In the US/HP case the US people can have their full seniority in their bases (PHL, CLT, BOS, DCA, LGA, etc) but have a seniority date that equals the merger date in PHX and LAS. So say if they merge on June 1, 2005, then that will be the adjusted seniority date for US employees who transfer to PHX and LAS and vice versa for HP employees who go to a US base.

[post="264237"][/post]​

That sounds very fair. I, for one, just want to hold my position in PHX and I would speculate that is all the most of the other HP folks really care about regarding seniority.

 

[galleyguy4u2]

That sounds very fair. I, for one, just want to hold my position in PHX and I would speculate that is all the most of the other HP folks really care about regarding seniority.

[post="264251"][/post]​

Hold on to your Scope Clause. As a former TWA f/a on furlough with 20yrs you know what happened to ALL of us.

I hope HP does not have to go through the hell that the TWA people did.

BTW....having flown HP you guy's are great!!!!!

 

[Twicebaked]

You people are under the impression that US f/as can come into PHX and run you out of Dodge. It's not going to happen. If the base isn't open for transfers, no one is coming in. If you are there, you will remain there.

Those not associated with US or AWA need to keep their thoughts to themselves and their friggin mouths shut. USAir went through many many mergers and they were all DOH and things worked out fine. Everyone is assuming that AWA is the buyer and that US needs them to survive. It may turn out to be the other way around. Don't hope that US employees are stapled to the bottom. Again, if US acquires AWA, you wouldn't want it done to you. Becareful what you wish for.

An earlier post stated that this can work. It will.
These other airlines hope it falls apart to protect their own asses. We are employees of these 2 companies and nothing more. It is not in our control.
As long as we all still collect paychecks....what is the hipe about?

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

US AIR was created by the merger of ALLEGHENY AIRLINES and MOHAWK AIRLINES. They are the original "DOVETAILED" airline and they will demand to be "DOVETAILED" if AWA merges with them!

 

[Twicebaked]

What exactly is Dovetailing? Is it date of hire intergration? I am not sure I follow what that is.

 

[luvn737s]

Demands drive the price of the deal up. If it gets too expensive, there's no deal. How bad does each side want this to go through? A DOH or bust mentality will surely cause the deal to fall apart. No one will agree to flush the entire AWA seniority list in order to get US assets.

It's as though someone who is drowning is demanding to choose which life jacket is thrown to them.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

US AIR was created by the merger of ALLEGHENY AIRLINES and MOHAWK AIRLINES. They are original "DOVETAILED" airline and they will demand to be "DOVETAILED" if AWA merges with them!

[post="264285"][/post]​

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Good point PRINCESS !!!

With the pilots, it should be a "no brainer"(assuming that they're both ALPA.)

What unions(if any) are the HP F/A's in ?? US f/a's ????????

HP AMT's ?????????
HP ramp ??????/
HP ticket agents/rez. ???????

NH/BB's

 

[Twicebaked]

Flight Attendant union for both AWA and US is AFA-CWA.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

Looks like your fixin to find out what "DOVETAILING" means. Here's a good example. In 1986 AA bought AIRCAL. The TWU represented the mechanics at both airlines and AIRCAL mechanics were "dovetailed" into the AA seniority list with their DOH and COMPANY seniority at AIRCAL. So a mechanic who hired on at AIRCAL in 1980, retained their seniority date of 1980 both occupational and DOH at AA.