No to the Alliance!

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

The Association has to be the biggest debacle yet by the TWU.
 
Last week Sean Doyle of the TWU/ATD spent all week in Tulsa having company paid union meetings trying to calm the masses.
 
First he claimed we would get a ballot and we could choose between Association or NO Union, and went on to explain that voting NO Union would be a huge mistake.
 
When asked if he supported the Association idea, he said NO. And also stated Lombardo was against it but couldn't stop it.
 
WTF? What union would place their members in a position of voting on something the leadership doesn't support or NO union.
 
What an idiot!

Your only an idiot if you believe that.
 
The fact the TWU would feed you such a weak lie shows what they think of you, and by you I mean the membership as a whole. 

 

[WeAAsles]

Come on WeAAsles I'm waiting for your reasoning on why you believe the Association
is a good idea, and how a LAA employee will benefit from it.
 I can come up with at least 5 reasons why it is a bad idea for LAA employees.

 
1. The pension issue, even if everyone maintains their own pensions will LUS employees
     ok the fact that AA will still need to maintain its LAA employees frozen pension funds
     on the backs of their labor..

Moot point. Other airlines have Pension obligations they still need to fulfill as well. Those costs won't be built in to the JCBA's
 
2. The company will play one union against each other.

How? Once we have JCBA's any further issues will be internal and there's a process built in to the Association agreement to remedy those (Arbitration)
 
3. Merging the two aircraft maintenance clauses could be very difficult in a single contract.

Yes. But even with one Union or the Association it would still be difficult. AA/USAIRWAYS merged.
                (Or do you feel if we had remained one Union then one group could have ran roughshod over the other?)
 
4. The efficiency benefits of merging two airlines is a moot point in the Association by maintaining
     duplicate operations.

What duplicate operations? Eventually we will be completely one Airline.
 
5. Each union will need to monitor ratio levels and use precious grievance dockets on Association
    grievances that do not benefit members.

How many times in the future do you think this issue will come up?
  
 I'am sure their are plenty more bad reasons for the Association.

I'm listening?

 

[Flying low]

The Association has to be the biggest debacle yet by the TWU.
 
Last week Sean Doyle of the TWU/ATD spent all week in Tulsa having company paid union meetings trying to calm the masses.
 
First he claimed we would get a ballot and we could choose between Association or NO Union, and went on to explain that voting NO Union would be a huge mistake.
 
When asked if he supported the Association idea, he said NO. And also stated Lombardo was against it but couldn't stop it.
 
WTF? What union would place their members in a position of voting on something the leadership doesn't support or NO union.
 
What an idiot!

If I remember correctly, He (Sean) kept laying the blame for the association on Jim Little. Something about he had the power to do it without approval from anybody...

 

[WeAAsles]

If I remember correctly, He (Sean) kept laying the blame for the association on Jim Little. Something about he had the power to do it without approval from anybody...

United States presidents issue "executive orders" to help officers and agencies of the executive branch manage the operations within the federal government itself. Executive orders have the full force of law when they take authority from a legislative power which grants its power directly to the Executive by the Constitution, or are made pursuant to Acts of Congress that explicitly delegate to the President some degree of discretionary power (delegated legislation).[1] Like both legislative statutes and regulations promulgated by government agencies, executive orders are subject to judicial review, and may be struck down if deemed by the courts to be unsupported by statute or the Constitution. Major policy initiatives require approval by the legislative branch, but executive orders have significant influence over the internal affairs of government, deciding how and to what degree legislation will be enforced, dealing with emergencies, waging 72-hour length strikes on enemies, and in general fine-tuning policy choices in the implementation of broad statutes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order

 

Administration of Barack Obama (2009-Present)
Disposition of Executive orders signed by President Barack Obama:

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/obama.html

 

[Vortilon]

United States presidents issue "executive orders" to help officers and agencies of the executive branch manage the operations within the federal government itself. Executive orders have the full force of law when they take authority from a legislative power which grants its power directly to the Executive by the Constitution, or are made pursuant to Acts of Congress that explicitly delegate to the President some degree of discretionary power (delegated legislation).[1] Like both legislative statutes and regulations promulgated by government agencies, executive orders are subject to judicial review, and may be struck down if deemed by the courts to be unsupported by statute or the Constitution. Major policy initiatives require approval by the legislative branch, but executive orders have significant influence over the internal affairs of government, deciding how and to what degree legislation will be enforced, dealing with emergencies, waging 72-hour length strikes on enemies, and in general fine-tuning policy choices in the implementation of broad statutes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order

 
Administration of Barack Obama (2009-Present)
Disposition of Executive orders signed by President Barack Obama:

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/obama.html

 
 
Hey now, there's a good comparison.  Obama and Jim Little both dubious backgrounds at best.

 

[WeAAsles]

Hey now, there's a good comparison.  Obama and Jim Little both dubious backgrounds at best.

Figured that you were probably a conservative. Ok here. 
 

Administration of George W. Bush (2001-2009)
Disposition of Executive orders signed by President George W. Bush:

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/wbush.html

291 Total Executive orders Issued: Bush
213 Total Executive orders Issued: Obama

 

[chilokie1]

 

Come on WeAAsles I'm waiting for your reasoning on why you believe the Association
is a good idea, and how a LAA employee will benefit from it.
 I can come up with at least 5 reasons why it is a bad idea for LAA employees.

 
1. The pension issue, even if everyone maintains their own pensions will LUS employees
     ok the fact that AA will still need to maintain its LAA employees frozen pension funds
     on the backs of their labor..

Moot point. Other airlines have Pension obligations they still need to fulfill as well. Those costs won't be built in to the JCBA's
 I'am not talking about other airlines, I'am talking about this one.  AA will be paying the same in terms of cost in the JCBA for a TWU
 employee as it pays an IAM employee. But they will also need to maintain the LAA pension fund obligations, at no benefit to LUS
 employees, hence "on the backs of LUS employees".
 
2. The company will play one union against each other.

How? Once we have JCBA's any further issues will be internal and there's a process built in to the Association agreement to remedy those (Arbitration)
 Choosing maintenance locations of aircraft, engines & components.
 
3. Merging the two aircraft maintenance clauses could be very difficult in a single contract.

Yes. But even with one Union or the Association it would still be difficult. AA/USAIRWAYS merged.
                (Or do you feel if we had remained one Union then one group could have ran roughshod over the other?)
 The maintenance scope clauses are so different, lowering the overhaul % in the TWU contract, or line maintenance rules
 in the IAM contract will technically be a concessionary contract. Letting the memberships vote on the best union to lead
 us through this merger is the best solution.
 
4. The efficiency benefits of merging two airlines is a moot point in the Association by maintaining
     duplicate operations.

What duplicate operations? Eventually we will be completely one Airline.
 Sorry I was referring to the Association keeping duplicate positions, that the memberships are paying for.
 
5. Each union will need to monitor ratio levels and use precious grievance dockets on Association
    grievances that do not benefit members.

How many times in the future do you think this issue will come up?
Its already an issue in Boston, and when AA chooses to move maintenance locations from one union station to the other 
unions station it will pop up every time. 
 
 I'am sure their are plenty more bad reasons for the Association.

I'm listening?

 

I gave you five bad reasons, I asked you for ONE good reason for the Association!
Still waiting.

 

[WeAAsles]

I gave you five bad reasons, I asked you for ONE good reason for the Association!
Still waiting.

My #1 reason in a nutshell:

UNION MEMBERS -- 2014


In 2014, the union membership rate--the percent of wage and salary workers who were
members of unions--was 11.1 percent, down 0.2 percentage point from 2013, the U.S.
Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. The number of wage and salary workers
belonging to unions, at 14.6 million, was little different from 2013. In 1983, the
first year for which comparable union data are available, the union membership rate
was 20.1 percent, and there were 17.7 million union workers.

In 2014, 7.2 million employees in the public sector belonged to a union, compared with
7.4 million workers in the private sector. The union membership rate for public-sector
workers (35.7 percent) was substantially higher than the rate for private-sector workers
(6.6 percent). Within the public sector, the union membership rate was highest for local
government (41.9 percent), which includes employees in heavily unionized occupations, such
as teachers, police officers, and firefighters. In the private sector, industries with
high unionization rates included utilities (22.3 percent), transportation and warehousing
(19.6 percent), telecommunications (14.8 percent), and construction (13.9 percent). Low
unionization rates occurred in agriculture and related industries (1.1 percent), finance
(1.3 percent), professional and technical services (1.4 percent), and food services and
drinking places (1.4 percent).

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm

Yea much better idea for Unions to fight against each other right? REAL SMART!!!!! :huh:

 

[CMH_GSE]

The union membership rate has Zero to do with this issue.

And in case you haven't been keeping up with Current events per the issue at hand,
The TWU and IAM are ALREADY FIGHTING over who gets Boston.

 

[WeAAsles]

The union membership rate has Zero to do with this issue.

And in case you haven't been keeping up with Current events per the issue at hand,
The TWU and IAM are ALREADY FIGHTING over who gets Boston.

That "Issue" will get worked out. That's a very very very small part of the BIGGER picture.

 

[CMH_GSE]

So to you, the bigger picture is union membership rate..

 

[CMH_GSE]

Tell you what, if you worked at a station that was going to be an IAM station, the current and impending infighting is issue #1.

And there's nothing else that's a close second.

 

[Vortilon]

Figured that you were probably a conservative. Ok here. 
 
Administration of George W. Bush (2001-2009)
Disposition of Executive orders signed by President George W. Bush:

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/wbush.html

291 Total Executive orders Issued: Bush
213 Total Executive orders Issued: Obama

 
Are you really attempting to compare a TWU international president's position with the POTUS?  Not even close.
 
Figured you were a progresssssive.

 

[WeAAsles]

So to you, the bigger picture is union membership rate..

Yep. No Unions or Unions die and all those Laws they helped make happen come crashing down. They'll be ZERO advocates for us.

ZERO!!!!!

 

[WeAAsles]

Tell you what, if you worked at a station that was going to be an IAM station, the current and impending infighting is issue #1.

And there's nothing else that's a close second.

If I worked at a Station that was becoming IAM I would ask them for a hat and how much is my dues going to be now. Any infighting is mostly done by people who don't have a large enough grasp on the bigger picture and the littler things are the one's they sweat way too much.

When PEOPLE "talk" they find out they have a lot more in common then they think.