No to the Alliance!

[700UW]

Another one who doesnt understand the concept of a message board.
 
If you dont like what I post, dont read it or use the ignore feature.
 
You dont own the board nor do you make the rules.
 
Your pension is almost $2 Billion underfunded, thats a fact.

 

[bob@las-AA]

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:10787]
 
 
Out of all that I had posted on this subject, it is you sir with all your blissful arrogance, fail in the understanding of how this works.
As far as this message board go, This is an arena for free speech and debate. But what I object to is your relentless banter of half truths to initiate debate without even the most fundamental element of knowledge just to invoke a response. My pension benefit after BK is only $52 per month. So I have no skin in that part of the game. So in truth, I could give a rats a$$ whether the fund is healthy, funded or not.
Your attempts to cause panic and further contempt to others at AA is getting old, please go and bother DL for a while.      

 

[WeAAsles]

 The WeAAsle won't admit it on this forum but he wants AMFA to get enough
cards so there will be a vote.

Actually couldn't care less. Just can't stand some of the BS artists on this Forums. If you ever get it I wish you the best of luck.


He dislikes the Association as much as the rest
of us so he becomes "The enemy of our enemy is our antagonist".


Don't dislike the ideology behind an Association or Partnership between Unions. It's actually a very smart idea. Don't like some of the items and how they're written in the agreement though. 

 
 The Association was negotiated on the TWU side by a guy who is gone, and
I'am sure better off financially for it. If AMFA can guarantee a vote the TWU is
in a no lose situation, sure they will most likely lose the mechanics (but then
again stranger things have happened).
 But even if they lose title 1, they will pick up all the rest of the title groups at
at USair = a wash. But the Association will be history. 

You have 6 days. I just very much doubt it's going to happen? And "if" it doesn't you'll all probably spend another 52 years hanging on to the dream.

 

[dfw gen]

Here fishy. Nibble nibble. The skillet is greased and my fillet knife is sharp.

dude you relly need a life. You spend a little too much time on this board. Is that your part time international position?

 

[WeAAsles]

dude you relly need a life. You spend a little too much time on this board. Is that your part time international position?

I'm sitting at the pool typing from my phone actually. And last night I was here.

http://www.whiskeytangofl.com/

But thanks for your concern.

 

[Bob Owens]

Another one who doesnt understand the concept of a message board.
 
If you dont like what I post, dont read it or use the ignore feature.
 
You dont own the board nor do you make the rules.
 
Your pension is almost $2 Billion underfunded, thats a fact.

Ok, prove it. Show us where it says its $2billion under funded. You are comparing current funding with estimated liabilities that will pay out over a 40 year period. What you are claiming is misleading  because you are mixing two different values. The fact is only one figure is defined, current assets, the other is expected or estimated liabilities. If you want to compare expected liabilities you have to compare that with the expected earnings on the assets that are currently in the fund. You must be assuming that over the next 40 years that $3.5 billion in assets will lose money on investments to come up with your $2billion shortfall. Thats one hell of a depression but not likely. Sure there are other variables, and I may agree that the 8.25% return is not prudent and should be lower, but to expect that it would lose money over a long period of time is not likely. So much for your "facts". Or "Dont let the facts get in the way"? I would rather see more money in there and a smaller estimated ROI but $2billion? Does the IAMNPF have enough funds currently , assuming zero ROI, to cover their pension obligations? Using your math how well funded is the IAMNPF? Considering that the IAMNPF is worth 30% less than the frozen AA plan they should really be rolling in cash and if so whats this I hear about one of the IAMNPF funds cutting the pensions of its members? 

 

[scorpion 2]

 

 

I left nothing out. I merely posted the information that was presented. After doing some research you are correct by reading this link I found. The attempt was made and turned down by the PBGC who was asked to foot the bill for the underfunding.
 
The PBGC should have the authority and willingness to implement creative labor-management solutions to preserve pension benefits. At United Airlines, the IAM and United negotiated a proposal that would have included restoration funding by the PBGC and transferring United’s pension liabilities to the IAM National Pension Plan. It would have left United in substantially the same position as it is today, following termination, and would have saved the PBGC $500 million dollars while preserving pension benefits for our members. Unfortunately, the PBGC rejected the deal.

http://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/rrtest060705.pdf

Now if you read the letter in full you'll see that the IAM had proposed to UAL in 2000 that they FREEZE the plan and transfer their members into the IAMPF going forward.

In 2005 from reading the letter rather than the pensions being thrown on the PBGC now that UAL had underfunded them, the IAM DID propose to take over the entirety of the pension plans. If you look at the financials of the PBGC it is almost catastrophically underfunded. There is a very strong future likelihood that absent a taxpayer bailout, substantial raising of the insurance premiums charged to companies or "Reduction In Payouts" the PBGC will likely one day become insolvent. Can you guess which one will likely take place one day?

So the way I look at it the IAM sought to preserve as much as they could of that Pension and the liabilities since it was going to be thrown into a riskier proposition anyway and take on that fund by putting it into the IAMPF.

Ours is currently frozen and is no longer at risk of being thrown on the PBGC. Plus the company made accelerated payments to the tune of an extra $700 Million dollars above obligations for 2014. Trying to compare Apples and Oranges against the two very different scenarios doesn't quite stack up.  

 
 
 

 

bump                                             

 

[dfw gen]

I'm sitting at the pool typing from my phone actually. And last night I was here.

Part time work at the pool. Not a bad gig really.

http://www.whiskeytangofl.com/

But thanks for your concern.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm sitting at the pool typing from my phone actually. And last night I was here.
Part time work at the pool. Not a bad gig really.http://www.whiskeytangofl.com/
But thanks for your concern.

On vacation till next Sunday. 20 years company, 4 weeks vacation.

First week in May always taken. My Birthday.

 

[chilokie1]

 

 The WeAAsle won't admit it on this forum but he wants AMFA to get enough
cards so there will be a vote.

Actually couldn't care less. Just can't stand some of the BS artists on this Forums. If you ever get it I wish you the best of luck.


He dislikes the Association as much as the rest
of us so he becomes "The enemy of our enemy is our antagonist".


Don't dislike the ideology behind an Association or Partnership between Unions. It's actually a very smart idea. Don't like some of the items and how they're written in the agreement though. 

 
 The Association was negotiated on the TWU side by a guy who is gone, and
I'am sure better off financially for it. If AMFA can guarantee a vote the TWU is
in a no lose situation, sure they will most likely lose the mechanics (but then
again stranger things have happened).
 But even if they lose title 1, they will pick up all the rest of the title groups at
at USair = a wash. But the Association will be history. 

You have 6 days. I just very much doubt it's going to happen? And "if" it doesn't you'll all probably spend another 52 years hanging on to the dream.

 Smart idea? Give me one benefit a LAA employee will see with the Association vrs. the normal representation changes
in an airline merger?
 If it is such a good idea why didn't  the two unions bring the idea back for a vote or at least an opinion of our elected
officials? My local pres. told me in a informal shop meeting he learned about it when we did.
 Dream? A little bit over the top don't you think? Its more like finding a cure for hemorrhoids , as long as they are still
there being a pain in your ass you are going to keep looking for a way to get rid of them.
 

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I'm sitting at the pool typing from my phone actually. And last night I was here.

http://www.whiskeytangofl.com/

But thanks for your concern.

Were you spending UNION dollars there?
 
A reward for all of your "hard work" on the forums perhaps? 

 

[chilokie1]

Come on WeAAsles I'm waiting for your reasoning on why you believe the Association
is a good idea, and how a LAA employee will benefit from it.
 I can come up with at least 5 reasons why it is a bad idea for LAA employees.
1. The pension issue, even if everyone maintains their own pensions will LUS employees
     ok the fact that AA will still need to maintain its LAA employees frozen pension funds
     on the backs of their labor..
2. The company will play one union against each other.
3. Merging the two aircraft maintenance clauses could be very difficult in a single contract.
4. The efficiency benefits of merging two airlines is a moot point in the Association by maintaining
     duplicate operations.
5. Each union will need to monitor ratio levels and use precious grievance dockets on Association
    grievances that do not benefit members.
  
 I'am sure their are plenty more bad reasons for the Association.

 

[TWU informer]

The Association has to be the biggest debacle yet by the TWU.
 
Last week Sean Doyle of the TWU/ATD spent all week in Tulsa having company paid union meetings trying to calm the masses.
 
First he claimed we would get a ballot and we could choose between Association or NO Union, and went on to explain that voting NO Union would be a huge mistake.
 
When asked if he supported the Association idea, he said NO. And also stated Lombardo was against it but couldn't stop it.
 
WTF? What union would place their members in a position of voting on something the leadership doesn't support or NO union.
 
What an idiot!

 

[1AA]

The Association has to be the biggest debacle yet by the TWU.
 
Last week Sean Doyle of the TWU/ATD spent all week in Tulsa having company paid union meetings trying to calm the masses.
 
First he claimed we would get a ballot and we could choose between Association or NO Union, and went on to explain that voting NO Union would be a huge mistake.
 
When asked if he supported the Association idea, he said NO. And also stated Lombardo was against it but couldn't stop it.
 
WTF? What union would place their members in a position of voting on something the leadership doesn't support or NO union.
 
What an idiot!

My take is that the NMB will approve the Association without a vote. The association was approved by the NMB. The association filing on our behalf is the showing interest. If no other showing of interest steps up in 30 days then the NMB will consider we wanted this association in the first place. Regardless of local 591's appeals and the memberships petition to the NMB along with several hundred individual letters sent in. Now if there is going to be a vote and only two choices and we pick the association over no union that will bring up the old saying from the union and the NMB, "YOU VOTED FOR IT". Either way we approved the association as members through the filing or a undemocratic vote. Amazing how we still have union members living in the dark ages oblivious to today's union and labor issues here at AA.

 

[WeAAsles]

My take is that the NMB will approve the Association without a vote. The association was approved by the NMB. The association filing on our behalf is the showing interest. If no other showing of interest steps up in 30 4 days then the NMB will consider we wanted this association in the first place. Regardless of local 591's appeals and the memberships petition to the NMB along with several hundred individual letters sent in. Now if there is going to be a vote and only two choices and we pick the association over no union that will bring up the old saying from the union and the NMB, "YOU VOTED FOR IT". Either way we approved the association as members through the filing or a undemocratic vote. Amazing how we still have union members living in the dark ages oblivious to today's union and labor issues here at AA.