No to the Alliance!

[scorpion 2]

Way too many who shouldn't have took that package. It took about a year before I heard they were stepping back into locals all over the system trying to get their jobs back.

They have only themselves to blame.

The twu sold that garbage and mislead people into voting yes on it. Got the company their dream contract though. Great job twu! 

 

[WeAAsles]

The twu sold that garbage and mislead people into voting yes on it. Got the company their dream contract though. Great job twu! 

They didn't sell crap. It was offered. No one twisted anyone's arm into signing up for it. And I knew a few senior guys who felt it was just enough to shake their arses off the tree and get out.

I told plenty of people that it wasn't going to be enough for them and they didn't care and left anyway. One girl told me she was going to be a song writer. 48 years old. Jeez Louise I can bet you where she's working today.

Look in the mirror once in awhile and take responsibility for your own actions in life.

 

[Vortilon]

Send him a message. Ask him if it's obviously so important to you.

 
I wouldn't go that far.  Pretty clear you're sold on the association, and convinced your frozen pension won't be messed with.  From what I'm hearing on the ramp & hangar, there seems to be a lack of confidence in the association, and their intentions.  If you were a line AMT, I'm sure you would have a different point of view.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
I wouldn't go that far.

Then you don't need to question who I say I am anymore if you're not really interested in checking.

Pretty clear you're sold on the association,

I'll let it grow on me and give it a chance. Nothing ever works if you're not even willing to give it a chance in the first place.

and convinced your frozen pension won't be messed with.

100% POSITIVE!!!!!!!

From what I'm hearing on the ramp & hangar, there seems to be a lack of confidence in the association, and their intentions.

There should be since they rolled it out without even giving us a chance to approve it. They have their work cut out for them. The emphasis is on them to prove any doubters wrong. We'll see?????

If you were a "line AMT", I'm sure you would have a different point of view.

Maybe? I don't know what's in all of your minds? But I did notice you specified "LINE AMT" again. I always seem to catch you guys leaving out that you have others who are a part of your Class and Craft? 

 

[MetalMover]

 


Maybe? I don't know what's in all of your minds? But I did notice you specified "LINE AMT" again. I always seem to catch you guys leaving out that you have others who are a part of your Class and Craft? 


 
 
Oh you must be referring to the OH guys who have for decades told the line guys,,"IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, JUST MOVE TO TULSA....." 
I believe many OH people are coming to realization they too have been had by the TWU. And if any of them are taking long term comfort it the latest visits to that best...they need to ask themselves what exactly is the commitment to that base?
One hangar? Two? What exactly?
 
One thing you need to realize, WeAAsles, is that the wedge that is driven between OH and line was put there by the TWU, NOT THE LINE AMT'S AND THE OH AMT'S.... Got it? The TWU leadership needed to retain their deal with the company by selling substandard contracts...
So if you wouldn't mind, please excuse the "LINE AMT" for not including the OH AMT in their conversations and endeavors. Every TUL favored contract of years past has been passed by that majority without any regard to the LINE AMT.   

 

[WeAAsles]

 

 


Maybe? I don't know what's in all of your minds? But I did notice you specified "LINE AMT" again. I always seem to catch you guys leaving out that you have others who are a part of your Class and Craft? 


 
 
Oh you must be referring to the OH guys who have for decades told the line guys,,"IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, JUST MOVE TO TULSA....." 
I believe many OH people are coming to realization they too have been had by the TWU. And if any of them are taking long term comfort it the latest visits to that best...they need to ask themselves what exactly is the commitment to that base?
One hangar? Two? What exactly?
 
One thing you need to realize, WeAAsles, is that the wedge that is driven between OH and line was put there by the TWU, NOT THE LINE AMT'S AND THE OH AMT'S.... Got it? The TWU leadership needed to retain their deal with the company by selling substandard contracts...
So if you wouldn't mind, please excuse the "LINE AMT" for not including the OH AMT in their conversations and endeavors. Every TUL favored contract of years past has been passed by that majority without any regard to the LINE AMT.   
 

Heard the same line in DFW brother. Every time I'd mention people in NYC, BOS, ORD, MIA or LAX I'd always get the same response. But yes it is the members fault. They're the one's who send their Presidents to negotiate on their behalf's. And they're the one's who don't care if someone who lives in a high COL area is struggling. "Well they should move if they don't like it" Heard that crap way too many times to count. On that one I'm more on your side than you think.

I'll tell you one thing I like about the Association. No more "Roll Call"! No one get's the pleasure of saying well I represent more members anymore. I don't believe in the Electoral College way of thinking.

People who work in expensive cities deserve a premium for that. NOW maybe some strong willed people in that negotiating room can convince the majority just in that room that it's not just a good idea, it's also fair?  

 

[MetalMover]

Heard the same line in DFW brother. Every time I'd mention people in NYC, BOS, ORD, MIA or LAX I'd always get the same response. But yes it is the members fault. They're the one's who send their Presidents to negotiate on their behalf's. And they're the one's who don't care if someone who lives in a high COL area is struggling. "Well they should move if they don't like it" Heard that crap way too many times to count. On that one I'm more on your side than you think.

I'll tell you one thing I like about the Association. No more "Roll Call"! No one get's the pleasure of saying well I represent more members anymore. I don't believe in the Electoral College way of thinking.

People who work in expensive cities deserve a premium for that. NOW maybe some strong willed people in that negotiating room can convince the majority just in that room that it's not just a good idea, it's also fair?  

Well, I'm glad you see the issue the line guys have with ROLL CALL. It's like having the state of California getting to choose the president because they are the most populous state.

 

[Bob Owens]

Well, I'm glad you see the issue the line guys have with ROLL CALL. It's like having the state of California getting to choose the president because they are the most populous state.

Latest headcount puts Local 591 total Headcount above Local 514, (thats including Stores). So forget the roll call, now Line guys have no excuse at all to not Vote. 
 
There were enough NO votes out of Tulsa that had the guys in 562 who didn't bother to vote made the effort and voted NO the contract would have been rejected, and 562 had the highest percentage of No votes in the company. . 
 
Moving to Tulsa is no longer an option and more and more they are being given the option, "move to NY or LAX if you want to stay an A&P."  
 
We need to look at how we are going to get our share of the Billions that AA is making.  

 

[WeAAsles]

Well, I'm glad you see the issue the line guys have with ROLL CALL. It's like having the state of California getting to choose the president because they are the most populous state.

It's not about Line or OH, it's about people. If the OH base was located in JFK and you were working in TUL you'd be the guy probably saying "Well they should move"?

People are greedy no matter where they live. They always got to have more. Doesn't matter how much they make or where they live either. They'll find a way to spend it if they can get it.

Don't ever kid yourself. Greed rules.



 

 

[WeAAsles]

Moving to Tulsa is no longer an option and more and more they are being given the option, "move to NY or LAX if you want to stay an A&P."  
 
We need to look at how we are going to get our share of the Billions that AA is making.  

Yea and as soon as they get there they'll be screaming that they deserve Geographic pay. You watch how fast that old tune of there's will change.

And the first way to get at those Billions is to stop plucking around and get in the room and start talking. Oh that's right, you want to putz around and stall it a little longer.

My bad. I forgot.

 

[MetalMover]

It's not about Line or OH, it's about people. If the OH base was located in JFK and you were working in TUL you'd be the guy probably saying "Well they should move"?
 
Like I said before, the TWU created this wedge between the two. If there were true UNION ideology and leadership, there would never have been a division between the two.

People are greedy no matter where they live. They always got to have more. Doesn't matter how much they make or where they live either. They'll find a way to spend it if they can get it.
 
Had the TWU supported geo pay,  we might not have the anti TWU sentiment we have now coming from the line.

Don't ever kid yourself. Greed rules.
 
Yes it does.But it seems to be acceptable when it comes to corporate greed.



 

 

[WeAAsles]

 

It's not about Line or OH, it's about people. If the OH base was located in JFK and you were working in TUL you'd be the guy probably saying "Well they should move"?
 
Like I said before, the TWU created this wedge between the two. If there were true UNION ideology and leadership, there would never have been a division between the two.

And the Local's are supposed to be autonomous so the Presidents that were voted in by the "Individual" memberships were the one's responsible for the divide then by maybe only being concerned about those people who voted them in and not the entire structure? 

"If there were true UNION ideology and leadership, there would never have been a division between the two". 😛h34r:
 

People are greedy no matter where they live. They always got to have more. Doesn't matter how much they make or where they live either. They'll find a way to spend it if they can get it.
 
Had the TWU supported geo pay,  we might not have the anti TWU sentiment we have now coming from the line.

Had the Presidents in those negotiations supported GEO pay or "maybe" the TWU leadership tried to convince them that they should, YES I think the sentiment would be a lot less than it is. Not completely gone but a lot less than it probably is in some line locations?

Don't ever kid yourself. Greed rules.
 
Yes it does. But it seems to be acceptable when it comes to corporate greed.

It's not acceptable but people give up too easy or are complacent and apathetic so they don't even try to do anything against it.





 

 

 

[scorpion 2]

 

I left nothing out. I merely posted the information that was presented. After doing some research you are correct by reading this link I found. The attempt was made and turned down by the PBGC who was asked to foot the bill for the underfunding.
 
The PBGC should have the authority and willingness to implement creative labor-management solutions to preserve pension benefits. At United Airlines, the IAM and United negotiated a proposal that would have included restoration funding by the PBGC and transferring United’s pension liabilities to the IAM National Pension Plan. It would have left United in substantially the same position as it is today, following termination, and would have saved the PBGC $500 million dollars while preserving pension benefits for our members. Unfortunately, the PBGC rejected the deal.

http://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/rrtest060705.pdf

Now if you read the letter in full you'll see that the IAM had proposed to UAL in 2000 that they FREEZE the plan and transfer their members into the IAMPF going forward.

In 2005 from reading the letter rather than the pensions being thrown on the PBGC now that UAL had underfunded them, the IAM DID propose to take over the entirety of the pension plans. If you look at the financials of the PBGC it is almost catastrophically underfunded. There is a very strong future likelihood that absent a taxpayer bailout, substantial raising of the insurance premiums charged to companies or "Reduction In Payouts" the PBGC will likely one day become insolvent. Can you guess which one will likely take place one day?

So the way I look at it the IAM sought to preserve as much as they could of that Pension and the liabilities since it was going to be thrown into a riskier proposition anyway and take on that fund by putting it into the IAMPF.

Ours is currently frozen and is no longer at risk of being thrown on the PBGC. Plus the company made accelerated payments to the tune of an extra $700 Million dollars above obligations for 2014. Trying to compare Apples and Oranges against the two very different scenarios doesn't quite stack up.  

 
 
 

When the pension agreement between the twu and iam was written I'm sure the strength of AA's trust was discussed.  The failure to transfer UAL's trust into the iamnpf was due to the PBGC not stepping up. Our's needs no infusion of cash by a third party.
Thanks for digging this up weaasles for all the fence sitters to read. 

 

[WeAAsles]

When the pension agreement between the twu and iam was written I'm sure the strength of AA's trust was discussed.  The failure to transfer UAL's trust into the iamnpf was due to the PBGC not stepping up. Our's needs no infusion of cash by a third party.
Thanks for digging this up weaasles for all the fence sitters to read. 

You're welcome Shifty. I don't suppose you would even consider telling the entire story rather than continuing to try and get people frightened of the big bad Boogy Man?

7 days to the Big Strike Out.

 

[WeAAsles]

Scorpion is this you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzHOmiV0eGU