No to the Alliance!

[1AA]

A little late Dale! Yellow cards are flying out of every shop in Tulsa!

I hope your right. Two weeks to go.

 

[Real tired]

Your answers up to the last one seem to be very thought and professional. 
 
The last sounds like you have your feelings hurt. 
 
I have yet to here anyone on this board to come forward to explain why they want anything to do with the IAMPF.
 
This IAMPF was not on the TWU Local 514 contract negotiation questionnaire?
 
You are indicating that we will have a payout from the AA frozen pension, your 401k, Social Security and the IAMPF?
 
I am asking you if you have seen anywhere that IF one decides to option into the IAMPF, will we get all four items?  AA Frozen Pension, 401k, SS and the IAMPF.

I might be able to answer a few of your questions.
 
To answer the last, when I become of age, I will, most likely just like you, rely on all four items you describe.  The terminated USAir pension that is now in the PBGC, my company 401K ( with no company match ), my SS, and my (ours and soon to be yours) IAMNPF.
 
Now to explain why I want you (all of you ) to participate in the IAMNPF.
 
Unlike my former coworker who states the fund is 105% funded, for 2015, the fund is now only at 101% funding.
 
And to me, and our resident AA financial expert, Morgan Stanley (We), this should be a little disconcerning.
 
Why?
 
That means for 2015, the number of "draw-ers" is starting to catch up with the number "pay-ers".  And in order for the fund to remain solvent, there always has to be more "pay-ers" than "draw-ers".  Or the fund goes into endangered status and my rate of return is cut up to 60%.
 
So, this is why I need you poor saps to buy into the fund.  In the near future, when I become a "taker", in order to guarantee MY check, I need more and more of YOU people to become the "givers".
 
I need you more than you need me.  Please donate graciously when the plate is passed to you. 

 

[Buck]

Four lines for 700 planes.
 
How many lines does AA for its 900 or so planes?
 
US does five in-house for around 300 planes.

Four lines of what?
 
Heavy Maintenance?
 
AA has Heavy " C " Checks at the moment I believe it is 2 in TUL. 
 
2 Light " C " 's and 1 drop in and a Heavy Repair ( non C Check )
 
SWAMT correct me if I am wrong, but SWA  contractually awards  Heavy Check Lines by the number of aircraft in the fleet?

 

[1AA]

I might be able to answer a few of your questions.
 
To answer the last, when I become of age, I will, most likely just like you, rely on all four items you describe.  The terminated USAir pension that is now in the PBGC, my company 401K ( with no company match ), my SS, and my (ours and soon to be yours) IAMNPF.
 
Now to explain why I want you (all of you ) to participate in the IAMNPF.
 
Unlike my former coworker who states the fund is 105% funded, for 2015, the fund is now only at 101% funding.
 
And to me, and our resident AA financial expert, Morgan Stanley (We), this should be a little disconcerning.
 
Why?
 
That means for 2015, the number of "draw-ers" is starting to catch up with the number "pay-ers".  And in order for the fund to remain solvent, there always has to be more "pay-ers" than "draw-ers".  Or the fund goes into endangered status and my rate of return is cut up to 60%.
 
So, this is why I need you poor saps to buy into the fund.  In the near future, when I become a "taker", in order to guarantee MY check, I need more and more of YOU people to become the "givers".
 
I need you more than you need me.  Please donate graciously when the plate is passed to you.

My point made. The iam pension is a pyramid scam.

 

[700UW]

PMUS does C-checks, Q-checks, S-checks and HMV visits, 50% of billable hours can be outsourced for heavy.

 

[Bob Owens]

"Our Pension is frozen and the TWU has no intentions of asking anyone to move it into the IAM National Pension Fund.

Please read the Association documents and think for yourself."

http://twu514.org/files/2015/05/Pension-QA-Final-Dale-Danker.pdf

So now you have at least one President coming out officially to establish that there is no intention on behalf of the TWU to move our Pensions over to the IAMPF. I think it would be nice if Local 591 President Gary Petersen also came out to at least attempt to allay or quell those irrational fears that people on these Forums pages continue to sell? At the very least he could establish that he would not support any type of initiative or even conversation if it were mentioned?

I'm quite sure that his members would appreciate that.
 

 
I dont think Dale meant to mislead but the fact is talks have already taken place and those talks resulted in an agreement signed by the TWU Internationals Bobby Gless with the IAM that they intend to get us all into the IAMNPF. The letter is not clear as to whether that means just going forward or if the intent was to roll over our AA DB pension into the IAMNPF. 
 
The fact is this could all be put to bed if Lombardo were to come out with such a letter because as we all know the fact is that none of the Locals are party to the agreement.
 
 
A while back I was expressing concerns I had as far as the language in the agreement relating to the 1114 process and the disbursement of our matched funds from our prefunding accounts. The International and others came out and said my concerns were unfounded, yet here we are three years later and we still have not received those funds. Now we have people saying that nothing is going to happen to our Pensions at AA, but nothing from the International, just a letter from a Local President who seems to be unaware that there is already an agreement between TWU and the IAM on what they want to do with the pension. 

 

[scorpion 2]

Sorry Dale when the real decisions are made they usher the local presidents
to the open bar down the hall. You quoted in a shop meeting you learned  
about the association when we did. The TWU has lost the trust of the rank 
and file, how can we  take a chance of losing the only benefit we have left.

I would be surprised if Dale even wrote it. Gary Yingst authors most of communication out of 514. Instead of elaborating on anything he just says AMFA sucks. The fact that most the arguments and fears are stemming from the alliance agreements and the international won't comment in an official letter since they were the authors of the agreements speak volumes. I guess Dale is still waiting for the iam attorneys to get back to him with a ruling that our trust can't be touched. That was supposed to be the big headline but apparently the AMFA sucks letter is the best he could do.     

 

[Bob Owens]

Buck what I am saying is that we would "probably" fall under the same guidelines? Unlike some of the other people on here I give it about a 0.02% chance that our frozen pension goes into the IAMPF if that's what you're thinking about? "IF" it was offered and you said you wanted to go into it, that would mean you get your Pension, 401k, Social Security and an IAMP check. 

Now for me I'll be 50 next week. I want to leave at 62. Having done the math I would get $500.00 a month not factoring in the 3 year percentage loss for leaving before 65. For me personally I don't think it would be something I would be interested in "IF" we lost the match for choosing it? (Again I believe we "could" be offered a choice between the two?)

I think the best advice again if we have options under the JCBA regarding the two would be to seek out a financial adviser and get his opinion on what might be best for you?

I wouldn't listen to anyone on here personally. Seek out an educated professional.

 
What are you basing your belief of the "choice" option on? The only written documentation out there states that they intend to get us into the IAMNPF, nothing about having an option. Its just wishful thinking, which is OK but my experience is that absent clear language wishful thinking never pans out. 
 
If our pension stays where it is your AA pension will not be reduced at all if you leave at 62, however if it gets rolled into the IAMNPF you would lose 13.5% and you could not take another job in the industry. 
 
If the company was willing to fund the IAMNPF and give us the match that would come out closer but still not as good as what they have agreed to give the flight attendants and nowhere near what they give the pilots. I would still prefer to have all the money under my control. 

 

[Bob Owens]

 IAM NATIONAL PENSION FUND, 
NATIONAL PENSION PLAN 
RULES FOR EMPLOYMENT AFTER RETIREMENT 
The National Pension Plan is intended to provide retirement benefits. Certain types of employment may result in the suspension of your pension benefits. The rules are different depending on whether you are age 65 or older, or under age 65: 
If you are age 65 or older (Normal Retirement Age) and you work 40 hours or more per month your pension may be suspended if: 
1. You work in any industry covered by the Plan at the time of retirement, while also in: 
 
2. Any trade or craft you worked in while in covered employment under the Plan 
 
Note: You may work under the above circumstances if it is less than 40 hours per month. 
If you are under age 65, and you work any hours your pension may be suspended if: 
1. You work in any job classification at a Contributing Employer, or 
 
2. You work in the same or related business or industry from which you retired even if it is a different trade craft than the one you worked in while in covered employment, or 
 
3. You meet the criteria for disqualifying employment at Normal Retirement Age 65, which is: employment in any industry covered by the Plan, while also in the same trade or craft you worked in while in covered employment under the Plan. 
 
You should request a ruling in advance of accepting employment. Pensioners must report all employment to the Fund within 30 days of starting employment and request a ruling on whether such employment is disqualifying. If you receive benefits for months you worked in disqualifying employment the Trustees will suspend your benefits and request a reimbursement. 
 
If you have any questions, call the Check Department at 1-800-424-9608. You may also visit the Plan’s website at WWW.IAMNPF.ORG to request a “Ruling on Employment” form.

So it appears that you cant work even after 65 either. You have to ask permission from the IAM, a Union we don't even belong to if they will allow us to work. 

 

[1AA]

PMUS does C-checks, Q-checks, S-checks and HMV visits, 50% of billable hours can be outsourced for heavy.

That is now. Wait when a JCBA is negotiated. I keep telling you things are going to change after the merger. Isn't it time for your walk?

 

[Hackman]

Four lines for 700 planes.
 
How many lines does AA for its 900 or so planes?
 
US does five in-house for around 300 planes.

AA does a lot less that it did, 777-767 outsourced to China and AFW hanger closed under the TWu's watch.

Not withstanding AA, US also has the lowest paid AMTs, thanks to the IAm sellouts like you.

As you have been told repeatedly, nobody cares about biased opinions in AMT matters from washed up former IAm stock
clerks.

Keep walking....

 

[700UW]

You must care because you keep trying to make me leave, when are you going to realize you don't own the board nor do make the rules.

But hey since you can't debate or refute the facts you have to make it about me.

14 days and counting.

 

[Hackman]

I would be surprised if Dale even wrote it. Gary Yingst authors most of communication out of 514. Instead of elaborating on anything he just says AMFA sucks. The fact that most the arguments and fears are stemming from the alliance agreements and the international won't comment in an official letter since they were the authors of the agreements speak volumes. I guess Dale is still waiting for the iam attorneys to get back to him with a ruling that our trust can't be touched. That was supposed to be the big headline but apparently the AMFA sucks letter is the best he could do.

Why is Yingst back in TWu office after beating his wife up on an airplane and being booted from the TWu
International good 'ol boy club.

 

[Hackman]

You must care because you keep trying to make me leave, when are you going to realize you don't own the board nor do make the rules.

But hey since you can't debate or refute the facts you have to make it about me.

14 days and counting.

Why don't you go give your nonsensical opinions on the elitist pilots thread? Because like the AMTs here, you would be told
to keep walking.

The fact that you don't understand that, just shows how base and obtuse you are, and why the IAm has failed.

 

[Rogallo]

Why is Yingst back in TWu office after beating his wife up on an airplane and being booted from the TWu
International good 'ol boy club.

Because the sheep voted him back in!