No to the Alliance!

[1AA]

Sounds great, but that might be what the iam pension fund is looking for. 100% funded.

 

[CMH_GSE]

Sounds great, but that might be what the iam pension fund is looking for. 100% funded.

Not exactly.
What the IAM is looking for is MORE members that they can lock into their IAMPF, that would be all of us at AA.

 

[Real tired]

Not exactly.
What the IAM is looking for is MORE members that they can lock into their IAMPF, that would be all of us at AA.

That's about right.
 
But doesn't it feel nice to be needed?

 

[scorpion 2]

Since we are talking about pensions in this here thread.
I just got an email from AA about our pensions.

Here is the letter:
http://c.hub.aa.com/my/pensions/12361_apfn_twu.pdf

The main point I saw was in 2012 and 2013 it was 85% funded
It is now over 100% funded.
And we can leave at 55 with no strings, unlike the IAMPF.


Edit to add the statement for the IAMPF
http://mypension.iamnpf.org/media/77156/AFN_2014_plan_%20yr.pdf

Thanks for posting that.  Weaasles and 700 claim our trust was severely under funded and for that reason the iamnpf couldn't or wouldn't take it over. Now we see that if our trust were to be transferred and going by the iam guidelines our trust would become 135% funded.  The big question now would be if that were to happen would guys like 700 be able to get some of their pension cuts reinstated because of the influx of slush funds coming into the plan?
 
I'm hearing rumors that the international is stressing over the onslaught of demands to respond to the pension issue and the current card drive. Almost a year since members have been asking for an official response in writing from the international. Apparently the thought of losing dues has woke them up.  Can't wait to see the letter if it materializes.

 

[WeAAsles]

Since we are talking about pensions in this here thread.
I just got an email from AA about our pensions.
Here is the letter:http://c.hub.aa.com/my/pensions/12361_apfn_twu.pdf
The main point I saw was in 2012 and 2013 it was 85% funded
It is now over 100% funded.
And we can leave at 55 with no strings, unlike the IAMPF.
Edit to add the statement for the IAMPFhttp://mypension.iamnpf.org/media/77156/AFN_2014_plan_%20yr.pdf

You do realize that it says 100% funded for the "Target" for the year. That does not mean that it is completely funded overall.

I can't read the entire document from my phone and if I tried to explain it to you I doubt you would believe me since I'm just a FSC.

You may want to take that letter over to your personal accountant so he can explain it to you?

 

[scorpion 2]

You do realize that it says 100% funded for the "Target" for the year. That does not mean that it is completely funded overall.

I can't read the entire document from my phone and if I tried to explain it to you I doubt you would believe me since I'm just a FSC.

You may want to take that letter over to your personal accountant so he can explain it to you?

your the one that says it's SEVERELY underfunded. How do you know that the iam fund doesn't use even funnier fuzzy math? One thing is for sure, if the iamnpf gets a shortage there is no corporation making billions to top it off.  It's called can I have reduced benefits to keep this thing solvent topping off. 

 

[WeAAsles]

your the one that says it's SEVERELY underfunded. How do you know that the iam fund doesn't use even funnier fuzzy math? One thing is for sure, if the iamnpf gets a shortage there is no corporation making billions to top it off.  It's called can I have reduced benefits to keep this thing solvent topping off.

Uh no. I said the "Pensions" were severely underfunded. Until one of your guys put out the information by Wroble I didn't know by how much for TWU? Most of that underfunding I always assumed was Pilots plans.

And there is no fuzzy math in that letter. It's about interpretation. Again and I'm being serious. You should take that letter to your accountant and have him or her explain it to you. That's not a slight, it's a suggestion.

 

[Buck]

No one has answered concerning the differences between the rules of the pension based on age. If the IAMPF is 105% funded ( maybe now,of it's target ) and it is based on age 65, how does the age 60 plan rules apply for the American employees?

 

[WeAAsles]

No one has answered concerning the differences between the rules of the pension based on age. If the IAMPF is 105% funded ( maybe now,of it's target ) and it is based on age 65, how does the age 60 plan rules apply for the American employees?

If the plan were to be "offered" to us more than likely we would fall under the same guidelines as everyone else who is a participant.

 

[Buck]

If the plan were to be "offered" to us more than likely we would fall under the same guidelines as everyone else who is a participant.

Are you answering that if an American employee who before could retire with Full Pension at age 60 now has to work 5 more years under the IAMPF?

 

[WeAAsles]

Are you answering that if an American employee who before could retire with Full Pension at age 60 now has to work 5 more years under the IAMPF?

Buck what I am saying is that we would "probably" fall under the same guidelines? Unlike some of the other people on here I give it about a 0.02% chance that our frozen pension goes into the IAMPF if that's what you're thinking about? "IF" it was offered and you said you wanted to go into it, that would mean you get your Pension, 401k, Social Security and an IAMP check. 

Now for me I'll be 50 next week. I want to leave at 62. Having done the math I would get $500.00 a month not factoring in the 3 year percentage loss for leaving before 65. For me personally I don't think it would be something I would be interested in "IF" we lost the match for choosing it? (Again I believe we "could" be offered a choice between the two?)

I think the best advice again if we have options under the JCBA regarding the two would be to seek out a financial adviser and get his opinion on what might be best for you?

I wouldn't listen to anyone on here personally. Seek out an educated professional.

 

[Buck]

Buck what I am saying is that we would "probably" fall under the same guidelines? Unlike some of the other people on here I give it about a 0.02% chance that our frozen pension goes into the IAMPF if that's what you're thinking about? "IF" it was offered and you said you wanted to go into it, that would mean you get your Pension, 401k, Social Security and an IAMP check. 

Now for me I'll be 50 next week. I want to leave at 62. Having done the math I would get $500.00 a month not factoring in the 3 year percentage loss for leaving before 65. For me personally I don't think it would be something I would be interested in "IF" we lost the match for choosing it? (Again I believe we "could" be offered a choice between the two?)

I think the best advice again if we have options under the JCBA regarding the two would be to seek out a financial adviser and get his opinion on what might be best for you?

I wouldn't listen to anyone on here personally. Seek out an educated professional.

What I am thinking about is that our pension is going to be on the negotiation table. I am completely against that. 
 
You are indicating that we will have a payout from the AA frozen pension, your 401k, Social Security and the IAMPF?
 
Are you saying that you believe your AA Frozen Pension will be absorbed into the IAMPF? 
 
What do you believe our individual cost is going to be?
 
Is the IAMPF going to allow any one of us to waltz into their plan with no credited years of service?
 
I would also like to ask you why you are giving out so much advice on our futures when you then two step into advising me to seek professional financial assistance?  
 
and why would you offer advice and then say not to listen to anyone on here?

 

[WeAAsles]

What I am thinking about is that our pension is going to be on the negotiation table. I am completely against that. 

So am I and I don't believe it will be.
 
You are indicating that we will have a payout from the AA frozen pension, your 401k, Social Security and the IAMPF?

If you look at Jetnet that will provide you the formulas for what your payouts will be depending on what you chose. There are multiple payout options. What I said about the IAMPF was IF you chose it IF it was offered as an option.
 
Are you saying that you believe your AA Frozen Pension will be absorbed into the IAMPF? 

BEYOND NO!!!!
 
What do you believe our individual cost is going to be?

Don't understand you question but if it's based on the last one you just got my answer.
 
Is the IAMPF going to allow any one of us to waltz into their plan with no credited years of service?

They will give you credited years of service for VESTING. Not for accumulation of benefits.
 
I would also like to ask you why you are giving out so much advice on our futures when you then two step into advising me to seek professional financial assistance?

The only real advice I'm giving you when it comes to financial issues is to seek PROFESSIONAL advice. Every one of us should do that.
 
and why would you offer advice and then say not to listen to anyone on here?

I don't think that most people on here care about you personally. That's why.

 

[700UW]

Thanks for posting that.  Weaasles and 700 claim our trust was severely under funded and for that reason the iamnpf couldn't or wouldn't take it over. Now we see that if our trust were to be transferred and going by the iam guidelines our trust would become 135% funded.  The big question now would be if that were to happen would guys like 700 be able to get some of their pension cuts reinstated because of the influx of slush funds coming into the plan?
 
I'm hearing rumors that the international is stressing over the onslaught of demands to respond to the pension issue and the current card drive. Almost a year since members have been asking for an official response in writing from the international. Apparently the thought of losing dues has woke them up.  Can't wait to see the letter if it materializes.

First of all why dont you actually post facts and not crap you make up?
 
Mechanic and Related at US never had their IAMNPF payouts reduced, that would be the ramp, they have been in the IAMNPF since 2003, and were on Schedule A rates, so for about 10 years of accruals will be at Schedule A and then after that they were on Schedule B.
 
If your pension was 85% funded, AA would not have frozen it.  Why is AA going to Congress to get their payments stretched out to make the plan fully funded?
 
My defined benefit plan from PMUS was terminated and turned over to the PBGC, so it will never be reinstated.

I am not in the IAMNPF.
 
Right from the PBGC:
 

 

AMR By the Numbers
Plans: 4
Total workers and retirees: about 130,000
Estimated pension assets: about $8.3 billion
Estimated benefits owed: about $18.5 billion
Estimated amount Insured by PBGC, if pension plans fail: About $17 billion
Premiums paid to date from AMR to PBGC: about $260 million
 

http://www.pbgc.gov/wr/other/pg/american-airlines-amr-pensions.html
 
So are you saying it three years AA paid $10.2 billion into the plans to make them fully funded?
 
Do you make this stuff up or does someone give you false information to post?

 

[700UW]

Also from the letter you posted your plan is almost $2 billion dollars underfunded.
 

The asset values in the chart above are measured as of the first day of the Plan Year. They also are “actuarial values”.
 
Actuarial values differ from market values in that they do not fluctuate daily based on changes in the stock or other markets.
 
Actuarial values smooth out those fluctuations and can allow for more predictable levels of future contributions. Despite the fluctuations,market values tend to show a clearer picture of a plan’s funded status at a given point in time.
 
As of December 31, 2014, the fair market value of the Plan’s assets was estimated at $3,747,000,000.
 
On this same date, the Plan’s liabilities, determined using market rates, were estimated at $5,610,000,000.
 
For this purpose, liabilities were calculated based on a discount rate of approximately 4.19% as mandated by ERISA. This liability calculation is not the same methodology provided by Pension Protection Act of 2006 (PPA) airline relief rules which is the basis for the funded status calculated on page one of this notice.
 

 
http://c.hub.aa.com/my/pensions/12361_apfn_twu.pdf