No to the Alliance!

[WeAAsles]

now your getting the idea. No report back to your superiors can you say fat don?

And it's guys like you who give me my reason to come on here and screw with you. Messing with ***holes.

 

[dfw gen]

Happy to make ur day chief.

 

[scorpion 2]

And you obviously don't trust a single solitary soul in the TWU including your Local President and all the other President's who can be easily back on the field living under the scenario you portray?

Does the AMFA drive have to portray that EVERYONE in the TWU is in cahoots for some grand conspiracy?

My local pres and none of the others had a say in any of this. Can they head it off,,,,maybe,,, but why would I want to be part of an organization that looks at me as a money source?   I can't believe I'm having to pay money for this.  I notice you didn't refute what I posted just spun the dialogue into a different direction. Everyone in the twu is not in cahoots but I will give you credit for the amateurish attempt at rebuttal. Where's your estranged bedfellow 700 maybe he can enlighten us?        

 

[WeAAsles]

My local pres and none of the others had a say in any of this. Can they head it off,,,,maybe,,, but why would I want to be part of an organization that looks at me as a money source?   I can't believe I'm having to pay money for this.  I notice you didn't refute what I posted just spun the dialogue into a different direction. Everyone in the twu is not in cahoots but I will give you credit for the amateurish attempt at rebuttal. Where's your estranged bedfellow 700 maybe he can enlighten us?

Why would I rebut your information when it's probably correct?

Still doesn't mean that I think the boogy man is going to try or be able to snatch our Pensions. I'm not buying into the panic button you keep trying to push.

 

[dfw gen]

Why would I rebut your information when it's probably correct?

Still doesn't mean that I think the boogy man is going to try or be able to snatch our Pensions. I'm not buying into the panic button you keep trying to push.

Maybe you should?

 

[swamt]

Why would I rebut your information when it's probably correct?

Still doesn't mean that I think the boogy man is going to try or be able to snatch our Pensions. I'm not buying into the panic button you keep trying to push.

Your pensions are frozen for now. They will be top priority at future nego's for the company to get rid of completely and with this association in charge they will get it as they ALWAYS agree with the company for all concessions as long as they save jobs.  Get a clue dummy, what will it take? WOW!!!

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

And it's guys like you who give me my reason to come on here and screw with you. Messing with ***holes.

This is probably the only truth  WeAAsles has said on this forum.

 

[Bob Owens]

I called Loeber and he said "yes"  it could be transferred if all parties were in agreement. Meaning that the membership gets warm and fuzzy over a nice raise and votes in favor of the T/A. 
 
 Just on the increase in age for full retirement between the 2 plans the pension obligation would be reduced by 25%.  Add to that the difference in early retirement penalty and the obligation would be reduced by another 9%. Who knows what the penalty % would be on the pension reduction for reemployment if a guy goes back to work.  Just by enforcing the iamnpf guidelines on us and not enforcing the back to work penalty our benefit takes a 34% hit if a guy left at 60.  The rules don't have to change to make anything solvent just enforce the ones that are already in place.
The shortfall in our trust was only about 15%. It may be less than that now.  Our trust will be 119% (plus) funded using the iamnpf guidelines. Yes we do have a bulls eye on us.  

Thanks, I've been saying that for months. What we are likely to have thrown at us is the difference between those who have already retired ,"qualified" IIRC, and those who have not retired. I believe those who have already retired are protected in that their benefits can not be changed, but the Union can negotiate to have our plan (those not retired) rolled into the IAMNPF, which I believe the company would love to remove off their balance sheet, and as we agree under the terms of the new deal any liability would likely disappear the roughly 30% windfall (for the company), and on paper the company would effectively be able to 'restore" our Holidays, vacation, sick time etc at zero cost (to them, not us).
 
What we need to do is concentrate on keeping our AA plan where it is and getting a 17% contribution like the other certified airmen on the property (APA) get. We do not want the IAMNPF.  Its a trap. 

 

[WeAAsles]

Thanks, I've been saying that for months. What we are likely to have thrown at us is the difference between those who have already retired ,"qualified" IIRC, and those who have not retired. I believe those who have already retired are protected in that their benefits can not be changed, but the Union can negotiate to have our plan (those not retired) rolled into the IAMNPF, which I believe the company would love to remove off their balance sheet, and as we agree under the terms of the new deal any liability would likely disappear the roughly 30% windfall (for the company), and on paper the company would effectively be able to 'restore" our Holidays, vacation, sick time etc at zero cost (to them, not us).
 
What we need to do is concentrate on keeping our AA plan where it is and getting a 17% contribution like the other certified airmen on the property (APA) get. We do not want the IAMNPF.  Its a trap. 

So Bob let me ask you. You are a Union official. Do you believe your President Gary Peterson would agree to this in negotiations? You also know other Presidents out there. Do you believe they would agree to this? You've also gotten to know I'm sure Harry Lombardo, John Samuelson and Alex Garcia, do you think they would agree to this?

If 'somehow" this notion of our frozen pensions being rolled over and into the IAMPF was to be proposed and accepted for us to vote on, you don't think there would be an uproar of epic proportions? Even if all those items that Scorpion brought up were modified or waived we all know that the fund administrators could modify them back in the future.

I want you to make up a scenario where you can see one year from now that my pension is unfrozen and handed over to the IAMPF even if I don't agree for it to be so?

My friend Jerry back in NY left the company about 6 years ago and became a Court Officer. When he hits 55 he plans on drawing his 22 year pension even with the 15% hit between 55 and 60. So what do you believe happens to him?

You also do know that the IAM tried twice to get the PmCo members to FREEZE their CARP (Continental Airlines Retirement Plan) and go into the IAMPF and were rebuffed both times. They never proposed taking over the CARP as far as I know? Why do you feel they would propose taking over the TWU pensions?

 

[CMH_GSE]

I want you to make up a scenario where you can see one year from now that my pension is unfrozen and handed over to the IAMPF even if I don't agree for it to be so?

You also do know that the IAM tried twice to get the PmCo members to FREEZE their CARP (Continental Airlines Retirement Plan) and go into the IAMPF and were rebuffed both times. They never proposed taking over the CARP as far as I know? Why do you feel they would propose taking over the TWU pensions?

To answer your last question first, the answer is simple, = control of the membership which of course means more money for the International.
They lock in the AA workforce to the IAMPF in the same way they have the LUS folks and all of a sudden it's not tenable to ever leave the IAM, or your would necessarily lose money's.

Of course they went after the PMCO pension, but they didn't have a huge raise tied to the deal like they will on this deal.
That's the answer to your first question.
They will necessarily negotiate the pension switch into the TA and it will have the lovely DL +7 raise, substantial by any measure, and it will be very hard for the lemmings to not vote for it because of the very shinny nickel they will throw into it.

In the end they will say, " well, you can vote it down if you want to keep the pension the way it is but it s going to be a while before we get another TA..."

We've seen this movie before, and it doesn't end well for the membership.

 

[WeAAsles]

To answer your last question first, the answer is simple, = control of the membership which of course means more money for the International.
They lock in the AA workforce to the IAMPF in the same way they have the LUS folks and all of a sudden it's not tenable to ever leave the IAM, or your would necessarily lose money's.

Of course they went after the PMCO pension, but they didn't have a huge raise tied to the deal like they will on this deal.
That's the answer to your first question.
They will necessarily negotiate the pension switch into the TA and it will have the lovely DL +7 raise, substantial by any measure, and it will be very hard for the lemmings to not vote for it because of the very shinny nickel they will throw into it.

In the end they will say, " well, you can vote it down if you want to keep the pension the way it is but it s going to be a while before we get another TA..."

We've seen this movie before, and it doesn't end well for the membership.

Alright I'm going to be nice today and say thank you for your opinion. But I specifically want to hear Bob's opinion because he is a TWU official and former President who knows and works with the people I mentioned. Since he's not afraid to put his name and opinions out there for public consumption I think it's reasonable to ask him the questions I just did.

If you are also a TWU Union official that's not something I know because you haven't disclosed who you are on these boards?

 

[700UW]

And the IAM didnt go after the CO CARP plan, I was on there NC in 2005.
 
They CARP plan would have been frozen and kept under control of CO then the CO FAs would have been transitioned into the IAMPF, the members voted and rejected it.

 

[1AA]

What was that last sentence you wrote? THE MEMBERS VOTED AND REJECTED IT. Wow what a concept. Voting on it. We are being forced into this lovefest without a vote before the nmb and after the nmb decision. Time for your walk 700.

 

[dfw gen]

So Bob let me ask you. You are a Union official. Do you believe your President Gary Peterson would agree to this in negotiations? You also know other Presidents out there. Do you believe they would agree to this? You've also gotten to know I'm sure Harry Lombardo, John Samuelson and Alex Garcia, do you think they would agree to this?

If 'somehow" this notion of our frozen pensions being rolled over and into the IAMPF was to be proposed and accepted for us to vote on, you don't think there would be an uproar of epic proportions? Even if all those items that Scorpion brought up were modified or waived we all know that the fund administrators could modify them back in the future.

I want you to make up a scenario where you can see one year from now that my pension is unfrozen and handed over to the IAMPF even if I don't agree for it to be so?

My friend Jerry back in NY left the company about 6 years ago and became a Court Officer. When he hits 55 he plans on drawing his 22 year pension even with the 15% hit between 55 and 60. So what do you believe happens to him?

The famous jim little "without further ratification"

You also do know that the IAM tried twice to get the PmCo members to FREEZE their CARP (Continental Airlines Retirement Plan) and go into the IAMPF and were rebuffed both times. They never proposed taking over the CARP as far as I know? Why do you feel they would propose taking over the TWU pensions?

 

[CMH_GSE]

Since we are talking about pensions in this here thread.
I just got an email from AA about our pensions.

Here is the letter:
http://c.hub.aa.com/my/pensions/12361_apfn_twu.pdf

The main point I saw was in 2012 and 2013 it was 85% funded
It is now over 100% funded.
And we can leave at 55 with no strings, unlike the IAMPF.


Edit to add the statement for the IAMPF
http://mypension.iamnpf.org/media/77156/AFN_2014_plan_%20yr.pdf