No Plan By Us Airways To 'pack Up' And Leave Pit

[usfliboi]

Hard core union reps are in the position to hear what they wanna hear. Keller model started basically the way it is today. Jet blue is another example of low paying low cost airlines. Cal is another example of a company that reorginized 2 or 3 times even after it was handed over much of eastern assets. These people dont have to struggle today like most bigger carriers and have no reason to complain. When you dont have something you dont miss it. Changes will occur whether you or I like it or not and theres nothing any union can do except what most are doing right now and thats complaining. You act as if we as employees have a choice The same choice we had during BK basically NONE! Oh we can pretend we wont "take it anymore" and "we ve already given Dave" crap however you know as well as i do when its at the bottom those things are out of control I assure u if we bk again you will see this time an reorg. thats not the unfriendly labor you guys claim it wasnt before. Im as frustrated as you or anyone else and i do know from being on line that many are upset but no one is willing to risk their livelihoods even if it means stepping away to something else or taking addtional cuts. Plain simple!

 

[repeet]

usfliboi
Posted on Dec 22 2003, 06:45 AM

Im as frustrated as you or anyone else and i do know from being on line that many are upset but no one is willing to risk their livelihoods even if it means stepping away to something else or taking addtional cuts.

I think that's our point !
"NOBODY is willing to risk their livelihoods".

Tell me, just what kind of cuts are you talking about, that you want US to take, to save YOUR job.

Then again, how about joining the team, and helping US save OUR jobs!!!

 

[delldude]

Hard core union reps are in the position to hear what they wanna hear. Keller model started basically the way it is today. Jet blue is another example of low paying low cost airlines. Cal is another example of a company that reorginized 2 or 3 times even after it was handed over much of eastern assets. These people dont have to struggle today like most bigger carriers and have no reason to complain. When you dont have something you dont miss it. Changes will occur whether you or I like it or not and theres nothing any union can do except what most are doing right now and thats complaining. You act as if we as employees have a choice The same choice we had during BK basically NONE! Oh we can pretend we wont "take it anymore" and "we ve already given Dave" crap however you know as well as i do when its at the bottom those things are out of control I assure u if we bk again you will see this time an reorg. thats not the unfriendly labor you guys claim it wasnt before. Im as frustrated as you or anyone else and i do know from being on line that many are upset but no one is willing to risk their livelihoods even if it means stepping away to something else or taking addtional cuts. Plain simple!

are you willing to let things go down to "expressed" wages on mainline to "save your livelihood?"
i'm not.
we go BK again it ain't going to be pretty....and as to "your livelihood"...enter BK again and the CCY clowns will go to the WN model of 'c'checks only....with the much ballyhooed reduction in force and wages to the tune of layoffs for mech's in the 80% range.
are you willing to let things go to this to protect "your livelihood"?
i'm not.
the odds are terribly against any and all if he would go back to BK...
they go to BK and abrogate contracts and raise the med's and cut the wages and take the vacation...how much you willing to swallow to protect your livelihood?
there's a fine line then and there that any and all have to cross deep inside themselves and come to a conclusion if its in OUR best interests for this company to die or survive.
you whittle at the trunk of a tree and it weakens and eventually falls down....you and i are the trunk of that tree.

 

[delldude]

dave outsources most heavy maintenance-realizes huge cost reduction due to thousands M&E employees no longer needed.
senior vp's-directors-managers-secretaries-supervisors-training personell -file clerks-mechanics-utility.the whole food chain.....
now we have to deal with pilots and flight attendants....we can always outsource reservations.....probably even customer service...and fleet,well they went with heavies.....now whats that leave??
now i think we could show a profit with the way we run our system.....
get my drift?? :blink:

 

[funguy2]

I believe once the contract changes are announced, there will be negotiations between the parties and deals will be obtained.

In regard to the ATSB loan guarantees, according to ALPA E&FA America West is in violation of its financial covenants, therefore, it appears the board will provide some leeway to other airlines going forward.

Regards,

Chip

I suspect the ALPA claim has something to do with its current negotiations.

According to Edgar Online... AWA must maintain $100mil in the bank, unrestricted. Furthermore, it must not allow total employee compensation to increase more than 15% each year, which is quite a sticking point with the union.

I could find no evidence that a covenent has been broken.

Furthermore, there was an article in Time Magazine comparing US Airways and America West's ATSB loans. It sighted AWA as a success story, and US Airways as much less successful in their restructuring. It would seem to me that if AWA is missing loan covenents, they would not have been portrayed as a success story. If you care to read, search the archives on Time.com, it will cost you a few bucks.

Thank you for siting your source. Now site the covenent they are in violation of.

I take all ALPA claims with a grain of salt... I do not understand how ALPA can represent both mainline pilots and regional jet pilots. I think that is a rather glaring conflict of interest. While that is a completely different debate, I bring it up only to note that ALPA seems to be able to swing facts around depending on who they are representing. Therefore, I do not believe anything is true because ALPA says so.

Based on my research, I believe you are wrong, Chip. Prove me otherwise.

 

[cavalier]

usfliboi
Posted on Dec 22 2003, 06:45 AM

Im as frustrated as you or anyone else and i do know from being on line that many are upset but no one is willing to risk their livelihoods even if it means stepping away to something else or taking addtional cuts.

I think that's our point !
"NOBODY is willing to risk their livelihoods".

Tell me, just what kind of cuts are you talking about, that you want US to take, to save YOUR job.

Then again, how about joining the team, and helping US save OUR jobs!!!

You're dead accurate.


I have been off having had some surgery and returned to work recently. So I was curious what the tone would be for further concessions. Being my job requires me to work in most areas dealing with the majority of mechanics I feel I have a very accurate consensuses on employee sentiments towards further cuts. ATTENTION: To the ones posting here on these boards saying and believing the majority of employees don't agree with what is stated here on aviation, guess what, you're DEAD wrong. Almost without exception everyone I talk to feels that they have come to a cross roads working at U. That the emotional stress of not knowing ones future year after year, the constant doom and gloom rumors, the always present big announcement coming next week of more woes for the employee, all these things have taken their toll. Everyone and even the ones with many years of service feel we all have paid the price of working at U dearly in not just cuts, but on their psyche. I hear this statement a lot. With all we gave plus what everyone that deals with U gave and the huge loans granted, and the fact our leader has zero creditable, and the fact the major stock holding is backing this powerless leader 100%, with all this, I refuse to give one last dime. They can close up shop and I will move on to a more stable life. That is what I hear from almost every soul who expresses themselves. There are pictures hanging up all over the place with a big fat big eating money, and printed on the pig is the company and this management team while the employees are getting eaten alive with the money. This is how employees feel about this management team. I wonder what kind of reception they will receive with the up coming road shows. My foremen said, and he is in management of course, that he will not waste his time going to any more road shows. This is the face of reality we have at U. To the ones who believe differently, your reality is altered.

 

[pitguy]

Still hearing from my "sources" that PA Governor Rendell is keeping the AFA local representative Teddy Xidas well informed on PIT negations. He genuinely likes her it seems. Anyhow they are well acquainted. Hopefully that will help us working slugs out.


Also heard a few days ago from colleague at LAX that Xidas may be the new President or Vice President for the AFA MEC (I think it is a district job for the whole airline, not just a local job. Sorry not sure maybe someone here will know.) I didn't think much about it until I heard the same thing today from a follow Mechanic working in CLT that is married to a Flight Attendant. Time will tell, but it is good to see all the unions coming together somewhat anyhow.

 

[Light Years]

 

[mrplanes]

fliboi said:

"Pit It amazes me that people comtinue to say that statement about respect when you dont finish the story.The likes of herb and others being respected comes from one thing. These guys had the nasty work done when they arrived or they started out with low wages and really have never had to make their employees take any concessions. All they need to do is say great job and continue to give annual raises. The day that these guys have problems and begin asking for give backs is the day youll see this type of WHINING!!!!! This type of crap that these boards are now spewing is no help to anyone. The majority of employees do not feel the way that is represented on this rumor filled, back stabbing nasty name calling chat board."

You just don't get it fli. What Seigel has accomplished with what he as been given by us and the others is nothing short of failure. And that doesn't even address his ability to lead and motivate. Put the two together and you have the formula for liquidation. Regardless of his "new" plan of transformation, he is too late. How can someone who supposedly has the confidence of everyone in the business except the employees sound the alarm about not meeting the covenants of the ATSB loan if his expertise is all that great? He is a utter failure. What makes you think his "new" plan will succeed. Get us someone who knows how to run an airline.

mr

 

[BoeingBoy]

Hi Bob,

Hope you (& yours) are about ready for a Merry Christmas.

You and I agree on something - I'm not sure that anyone with the business acumen that is necessary to turn this place around is what little time may be left would want to jump into this "briar patch". No matter what they would be paid.

Have a happy,

Jim

 

[mrplanes]

Bob:

What makes me think it won't work is simply what he has done so far. I would have thought you would see that. You are always touting yourself as a guy who knows how to succeed. Let me expound on that. Even IF he comes up with a plan that has a shot, how is he going to get everyone on board? What is posted here is NOT a vocal minority. Ask any employee you come into contact with the next time you travel on us if they have any conifidence in Dave Seigel. Ask them Bob. After they answer you then you come back here and tell me Seigel can operate this airline without employee support and loyalty. His credibility with the employees is shot. And that is the biggest reason why his new plan, whatever it is, will not work. When you add that to the fact that we have a real chance to default on the covenants of the ATSB loan guarantees using the plan HE put into place after chapter 11 (a ringing success eh?) how can you NOT think he would fail? HE told us his plan would bring us back. HE told us he was going to save our airline.

Who could make us a success? Well you have me there Bob. I thought Seigel was the one when he got here. Truly did. But like the others before him he didn't. And I am not about to be silent and allow him to take us down without yelling about it. Aparently none of the employee groups are. Back to who can save us. If I were the Ayatollah in charge I would try to steal someone from LUV or JetBlue. I would also look at Mullin and Carty. Especially Mullin. He was the first one on board the LCC fight with Song. And hows about stealing Bethune from CAL? You never know when someone might like a new challenge. And he worked here before. Did you know that Bob?

People make the mistake of framing this debate as if whoever comes in here to replace Seigel will piss us off just as bad. That is the point about leadership and motivation. If Seigel had us on our team, we wouldn't be calling for his ass. We would be supporting him. We all understood the need to give up when he got here. We did. Then the lying started. Then the doom and gloom wouldn't let up. Then the "managing expectations lower" began in earnest. Whoever comes in here simply has to build a team. Bethune did it at CAL. CEO's do it each and every day inside and outside this industry. You know that Bob.

I fail to see anywhere where I stated I had all the wisdom. That guy has a birthday coming up in a few days. Besides, I'm a pilot. I just think I have all the wisdom. But I do know something about business and what it takes to be successful. I have run one since 1980. And the employees are the key. If they are on my team I win. That's why I'm still in business. We are not on Seigel's team. He failed to even attempt to make us a team. He thinks in numbers and spreadsheets. And not very well I might add. And that is why he must go.

Merry Christmas Bob. And Happy New Year. If you ever fly on a 757 or 767 ask if mrplanes is flying. I'd love to sit and talk to you for a while.

mr

 

[delldude]

hope we stay in PIT for the long term but they're surrounding the wagons out there!
see story:

 

[delldude]

As for pissed off employees I can say this. The ones i have talked to are mostly ambivelent. T
hey are beaten down and feel that no matter who is at the top it won't matter.

Many have stated "He's doing the best he can considering what he had to work with."

One recent comment from a pilot went like this: Siegel? He's a horses ass! He was so angry I thought the vein in his head was gonna go at any minute. I told him who I was and gave him a Cockroach mug. Definately a "Be careful what you ask for" moment LOL

If you want my honest opinion I think that the plan is late to the game and that is the real problem.

so bob it looks as if you have gotten a very limited cross section.....but from what you have said it seems MRPLANES has hit it on the head.when you are in whatever terminal and see uniformed U employees walk by,try and talk to someone from the mechanic group or fleet service group...look at their shoulder,the job classification is on the shoulder,and see what the guy on the ground has to offer...please...
have a very nice holiday to you and yours....
d/d