No more fighting from the East or the West...

[Tiger 1050]

Triumph,

We are way too far apart to come to any kind of consensus. Like you of me, I don't agree with your assessment of this ugly outcome. This will play out just as every other huge problem around here has.

May you never be placed in a situation as ours. But if you do, please know, that is has no bearing on you as a man nor professional pilot. We get into this thing for keeps, and do our very best. Everyone knows it. Management especially knows it. As we do our best; rocks get thrown at us for really no reason, nor blame of our own.

Shame of it is; our union has lost it's integrity. They have an itch for stomping on one faction to boost another faction. Simply a business plan if you will-you know, revenue. Thought I'd never see the day. So that leaves us family-the thick and thin kind. And for me, that's good enough.

I promise to fight for my career. I promise to fight for appropriate pay scales, healthcare, and retirement. For my kids, my wife, and for common professional standards. I don't want yours, and you may not have mine. We work this out and I will be the first to defend your job, your pay, and your future and retirement. But if you want to capture the slightest bit of the vacancies that are being created due to the average age of my group-you pal are on your own.

Best,

I agree to disagree. This imaginary line, of which we find ourselves on opposite sides, has proven to be difficult at best. I have said it before and I'll say it again. There is sympathy out west. However we will not be made to respect you solely for your "years in the biz." Respect is something earned not something you gain with some badge of honor or timeline. Like you we will fight to protect what we feel we are entitled to. To do anything less would suggest you don't fully appreciate what one has done to get here.

I will agree that ALPA has lost it's integrity, but maybe for a different reason. I believe that they are failing to follow their own CBL. It clearly states they must "present and defend" the list. So far they have yet to do that...

I fully expect you to continue to fight for your career. Please do what you must in the interest of your family. As I will do what I must for my wife and children. I hope to one day have all this as a distant memory. I look forward to flying with east pilots. But I wish to do so as equals not as some subordinate lackey. My choice to work for AWA does not necessarily suggest that I am younger (I am however), less intelligent, or less capable in an airplane...

I and my fellow AWA pilots understand we are "on our own." This is how we came to the arbitration to begin with...

As the saying goes: "Nothing personal, it's just business."


Good day little children...

 

[supercruiser]

>>Now don't go thinking that we want all of your attrition. Did you know that more than half of your attrition will be from the right seat?<<

First of all, that's bs, because that isn't happening that way now (I'm here and see it with my own eyes every month, and moving up nicely as a current Capt, while you are just reading some propaganda), and wide body fo jobs are generally held by those that could be capt, as well as many other senior fo's, that could be capt, that bid fo for various quality of life reasons. Do you think a junior E pilot who has EVERY W pilot below him cares which seat someone's sitting in when he retires? Makes no difference to him. That E pilot who got screwed the most in this award is benefiting the most right now.

>>Nic did follow the policy. If he hadn't then your puerile lawsuit would have some steam to it by now. To say that the west got a windfall and Nic purposefully screwed you guys is nothing more than an opinion skewed by raw emotion.<<

This is the weakest excuse of an answer. The process was followed, but the merger policy tenants were not. That ALPA National hasn't the stones to admit it publicly is why they are facing losing many millions of dues to some other union. I didn't see any defense of the W getting the opportunity to bid some, most, or all of the E attritions vacancies first. Make your case for why you should. Cripes, your own W pilots are running around saying we WON. Even if you knew nothing else about this whole fiasco, if that doesn't tell you something about the fairness of the arbitrators award, then you are in denial. Lastly, based on your logic, why didn't ALPA pass the list on to the company? What's holding them back all this time?

No matter what happens in the legal arena, (clearly an uphill battle for the E) which could take years (oh well sorry for you), can't see a joint contract being agreed to by the E. Maybe some other events will take place which will make the whole thing moot.

 

[Tiger 1050]

>>Now don't go thinking that we want all of your attrition. Did you know that more than half of your attrition will be from the right seat?<<

First of all, that's bs, because that isn't happening that way now (I'm here and see it with my own eyes every month, and moving up nicely as a current Capt, while you are just reading some propaganda), and wide body fo jobs are generally held by those that could be capt, as well as many other senior fo's, that could be capt, that bid fo for various quality of life reasons. Do you think a junior E pilot who has EVERY W pilot below him cares which seat someone's sitting in when he retires? Makes no difference to him. That E pilot who got screwed the most in this award is benefiting the most right now.

>>Nic did follow the policy. If he hadn't then your puerile lawsuit would have some steam to it by now. To say that the west got a windfall and Nic purposefully screwed you guys is nothing more than an opinion skewed by raw emotion.<<

This is the weakest excuse of an answer. The process was followed, but the merger policy tenants were not. That ALPA National hasn't the stones to admit it publicly is why they are facing losing many millions of dues to some other union. I didn't see any defense of the W getting the opportunity to bid some, most, or all of the E attritions vacancies first. Make your case for why you should. Cripes, your own W pilots are running around saying we WON. Even if you knew nothing else about this whole fiasco, if that doesn't tell you something about the fairness of the arbitrators award, then you are in denial. Lastly, based on your logic, why didn't ALPA pass the list on to the company? What's holding them back all this time?

No matter what happens in the legal arena, (clearly an uphill battle for the E) which could take years (oh well sorry for you), can't see a joint contract being agreed to by the E. Maybe some other events will take place which will make the whole thing moot.

Ya know, it all comes down to what is reality and what is not.
Reality: Binding Arbitration.

Reality: Can and probably will be sued for your actions, or should I say inactions, regarding the Transition Agreement. How can you pass resolutions that clearly undermine the TA?

Reality: Parker wants this thing put together. Period. To think otherwise is just plain ignorant. He is first and foremost a money man

Reality: ALPA is scared that you easties will in fact decert. However we out west believe this to be a bluff and wish to call you on it. If I were you I would certainly think long and hard about changing representation in the middle of this. Not that a change will effect any type of modification to the award anyhow. Read up on the law. Don't just accept what your MEC feeds you...

Reality: Getting back to my first point, the east entered into BINDING ARBITRATION!!! VOLUNTARILY!!!! If you could not possibly understand the risk you were taking then you should have avoided it at all costs. This is how the game is played! You cannot go back and say I want to play more innings!!!! This is the award. Now be men about it and accept it!!!

And as far as the "tenants" are concerned ask yourself if they are hard and fast rules. Or are they guidlelines? If they were intended to be hard and fast rules then words such as "avoid" would not have been used. Statements like "will not", "shall not" etc. would have been put in place of these words that lend flexibility to the "tenants." C'mon guys. Stop reading crap into this policy. Is it weak? Yes! Were you harmed in this arbitration? We'll say yes just for arguments sake. You still entered into this game knowing full well what might happen. I think you failed to realize that "it" could happen to you. Don't look too far back but it is my understanding that Nicolau had served your pilot group once before. How did that go? And not too long ago Alaska Airlines had their butts handed to them in binding arbitration. Look around! You are not the only pilots and you certainly are not topping the list of nobles in our profession...


Good day little children...

 

[Travelpro72]

You all can take shots at either side if it makes any of you feel better. I got news for all of you though, management doesn't care for any of you. PERIOD. I'm sure they find this funny. Well at first it was funny, just old now. Seniority all the way.