No more fighting from the East or the West...

[cageyjames]

Learn from UAL, the ESOP was a total failure and the employees lost their investment.

Oh dear god you don't want to own any of this company. Not only UAL, but what about Enron and all those folks who have their savings/retirement tied up in the place they work.

 

[Mr Furlough]

So why do you think you are entitled to super-seniority? You were at the bottom of your own list and you were appropriately placed at the bottom of the combined list. That is fair, no gain or loss for you. If you are envious of Dave's age that is a personal problem. Yes, he has quite many years remaining in his career, but to use that or his age against his advancement as a professional pilot is pure discrimination. This board has seen a collection of east pilots post endlessly about DOH but none of you can produce one document relevant to this merger which states DOH, years of service are considerations in an integrated seniority list. You all tap dance (and very well I might add) around that little fact and pontificate constantly about your righteous entitlement to super-seniority.
So, just produce one document relevant to ALPA merger policy stating your career stagnation merits super seniority on our list. Just one. If you can't produce anything (we all know you can't produce anything because this DOH principle is a part of your imagination) or just simply take a pass on answering we all will understand why.

Nonsicle arguments. It's not that someone should pay for me, it's the seniority system bunkee. Saying that I expect someone to pay for me is like saying I've paid for those before me. It's just foolish. We start at the bottom and accrue seniority. There's no free lunch here, there's no leap froggin.

Dave doesn't suffer from a age problem. He suffers from a longevity problem. But truthfully, this kid is going to do quit well here. Tell me. What right does Dave have keeping me from an upgrade?

 

[Tiger 1050]

Dave doesn't suffer from a age problem. He suffers from a longevity problem. But truthfully, this kid is going to do quit well here. Tell me. What right does Dave have keeping me from an upgrade?

Uh oh! You see therein lies your inability to understand all of this. It's not a longevity integration. It's a seniority integration. One does not necessarily equal the other as your case clearly shows out east.

Good day little children...

 

[Mr Furlough]

Uh oh! You see therein lies your inability to understand all of this. It's not a longevity integration. It's a seniority integration. One does not necessarily equal the other as your case clearly shows out east.

Good day little children...

Yea good argument....So in your world, it doesn't matter how long you work for an employer under a seniority system. It's still ok for them to place a less tenured employee ahead of someone with 16 years greater tenor....under a seniority system.

Enlighten me, how does the seniority system work?

 

[CactusFlyr]

Nonsicle arguments. It's not that someone should pay for me, it's the seniority system bunkee. Saying that I expect someone to pay for me is like saying I've paid for those before me. It's just foolish. We start at the bottom and accrue seniority. There's no free lunch here, there's no leap froggin.

Dave doesn't suffer from a age problem. He suffers from a longevity problem. But truthfully, this kid is going to do quit well here. Tell me. What right does Dave have keeping me from an upgrade?

Dave brought a date to the dance, you showed up stag.

 

[AWA320]

Yea good argument....So in your world, it doesn't matter how long you work for an employer under a seniority system. It's still ok for them to place a less tenured employee ahead of someone with 16 years greater tenor....under a seniority system.

Enlighten me, how does the seniority system work?

Ok here goes for you AGAIN!!!!

We take the AAA list and the AWA list put them side by side. We see from the onset that there is a huge difference in longetivity due to the fact that AAA is a much older company. So we look at the bottom of the list and work our way upward. The bottom active pilot at the time this thing was announced had roughly what say 18yr CONTINUIOUS service with the company but again he was the LAST active pilot before furlough. Then we look at the AWA list and our bottom ACTIVE pilot. Each of these gentleman had no active pilots below them thus the were both at the absolute bottom of the list. Now under a fair system of realitive seniotity these two pilots have the same seniority while the AAA pilot has more longetivity he has no seniroity.

What you and most AAA pilots feel should happen is we take this bottom guy with no seniority and 18 yrs of longetivity and place him on the list with 18 years of seniority. This is called DATE OF HIRE!!! As I am sure you are well aware, DATE OF HIRE was removed from merger policy in 1991, some 16 years ago. Now given that fact, we must assume you knew that DATE OF HIRE was not in the policy when you and or your mec decided to go into arbitration. There was never anytime when you and or your mec voiced any concern what so every about said policy.

I hope this has been a helpful and insightful lesson.

 

[EastUS]

Ok here goes for you AGAIN!!!!

Against my reasonable intent to properly digest a fine luncheon...I was actually going to read your post AWA...but it's become far past tiresome even attempting to translate your gibberish into anything approaching actual english. You'll forgive me for not further abusing myself past your opening "statement". It's doubtless my loss, in that I've likely missed out on some scintilating segment of the continuous loop presentation that would have utterly enlightened me.

 

[sp300]

SOLUTION:
Shuttles from PHL to PIT.
Mainline PIT to ALL stations.
.
NO WAITING IN PIT.

 

[AWA320]

Against my reasonable intent to properly digest a fine luncheon...I was actually going to read your post AWA...but it's become far past tiresome even attempting to translate your gibberish into anything approaching actual english. You'll forgive me for not further abusing myself past your opening "statement". It's doubtless my loss, in that I've likely missed out on some scintilating segment of the continuous loop presentation that would have utterly enlightened me.

Ok, aside from your insults and obvious lack if intellect did you understand the point EastUS or not??

 

[sharktooth]

1. We go to the shareholders and show a vote of no confidence. That could bring about a change in upper management Tery .

How many AFA people went to the Shareholders meeting in PHL in May? Two? One who the morons in PHL could not find to vote as president, voting in a charlatan instead? Terry and Linda, the only ones who know what is going on?

I also don't feel I am being arrogant when I say that all of us must do their best to provide our customers with the best service possible with the tools we have. You can only do so much... If our customers leave... It's not because of you, or I, it's because of D.P and S.K. and their bad decisions.

Just my opinion...

I agree. Asking a crewmembers to take time out of their duties to resolve an issue that the company assumed would be resolved by people min staffed is obscene.

If the company must die, then let it do so.

 

[sharktooth]

We take the AAA list and the AWA list put them side by side.

Ah, but the lists are not "side by side" as you assert.

Even your own merger committee people concedes that there is a 620 pilot deficit for US just on the issue of vacation that has to be resolved before one can compare lists "side by side". and the other parts? Aside from that, many pilots will never agree with "relative seniority". When US buys JetBlue or Virgin America buys US, you, personally, will be screwed to a poop-house wall. ALPA will not "protect" you. Nobody will. In fact, I will happily testify against you sad sacks.

Get it straight now or forever cede your potential career. DOH with conditions and restrictions, in this environment, is your long-term salvation. Otherwise, your short-term gain will just be that, short-term.

 

[Mr Furlough]

Further, while DOH was removed (by political means) from the policy, I am quit sure that relative seniority was never put in it's place.

Also, since we are referring to the ALPA policy; Doesn't it mention anything about avoiding windfalls?

The seniority system was adopted a very long time ago buy ALPA. In fact today it is the standard throughout our industry. It was created to disallow management from bringing in a relative, a friend, or a group to fill Captain positions over those whom were already serving the airline. How you west guys go from this concept to the concept that it is perfectly alright to place an apprentice member ahead of a 18 year member is beyond words.

Should the fiasco proceed and the Nicolau award is implemented-than as the previous post suggest-you will have your careers handed in a s*%t bag to you.

Unbelievable....

 

[AWA320]

Further, while DOH was removed (by political means) from the policy, I am quit sure that relative seniority was never put in it's place.

Also, since we are referring to the ALPA policy; Doesn't it mention anything about avoiding windfalls?

The seniority system was adopted a very long time ago buy ALPA. In fact today it is the standard throughout our industry. It was created to disallow management from bringing in a relative, a friend, or a group to fill Captain positions over those whom were already serving the airline. How you west guys go from this concept to the concept that it is perfectly alright to place an apprentice member ahead of a 18 year member is beyond words.

Again how many people did this 18 yr SEASONED pilot have below him on your list???????????

Should the fiasco proceed and the Nicolau award is implemented-than as the previous post suggest-you will have your careers handed in a s*%t bag to you.

Unbelievable....

waiting on my bag of s@&t!!!

 

[EastUS]

Ok, aside from your insults and obvious lack if intellect did you understand the point EastUS or not??

Aside from my "obvious lack if intellect" did you actually read and understand the part wherein I noted that I wasted no time by way of reading your latest, presumably circular drivel? " "Against my reasonable intent to properly digest a fine luncheon...I was actually going to read your post AWA...but it's become far past tiresome even attempting to translate your gibberish into anything approaching actual english." FYI; in the english language: "I was actually going to read your post AWA"..isn't in any way indicative of having read it. There's scarce reason to do so, as you've simply been bleating out the same childish nonsense for three full months now.

This last one-liner of yours amounts to little more than a sad cry for help methinks. I never place anyone on "ignore" as it's against my principles to do so, but don't expect any rapt attention paid to your postings. Do feel perfectly free to avoid mine as well.

 

[Mr Furlough]

waiting on my bag of s@&t!!!

AWA320,

Please don't modify my post in quotes. One would hope that the administrator would take care of a misrepresented statement utilizing my name.

Be that as it may. You will reap what you sow in all of this. It is something called precedence. While you may feel bullet proof now-hanging it all on the Nicolau award-thing is this business has a way of coming home to roost. That's free advice.

If you care to add your thoughts within the argument, I welcome your opinion. But don't change what I have posted.