Nmb Determination Of Mechanic & Related(2002)

[Raptor]

So do you agree with CIO then, that AMFA on AA property will lead to mass layoffs?

Of course not only a real idiot would believe that myth, Unions have nothing to do with layoffs, company's layoff and they do it according to their manpower needs nothing more, it makes no difference how much a employee makes, a company will keep the employee's it needs no matter what they make and they will layoff anyone that is not needed that goes for all company's big and small, unfortunatly that is what has to happen if a business wants to stay in business and we all know it.

I personally don't think very much of anything will change when AMFA gets in not until 2008 then it will matter who is representing us, if it is the TWU we will probably give more of our contract away and if it is AMFA we will get some of it back.

AMFA in 2004 for tough representation.

 

[Decision 2004]

Most of what you've said here happened before my tenure with the TWU.
I know the TWU is not perfect, but they are my representatives and I am not going to sell them out. I would much rather try to make things better with them then to change carts in the middle of the stream. I believe they are the best chance we have to succeed with American Airlines. As I said, people were angry with concessions and signed a card, but at the end of the day, they know what is better for them.
Why is it any different than when the IAM was in? It's not really, but all I did then was gripe about them and never got involved. Now I am trying to make a difference. h34r:

As if we have not heard that or tried to change the TWU before.

Even the dominating Bus Drivers, Bus Cleaners, Subway Operators, and Subway Signal Operators of the TWU Local 100 cannot change the TWU from within.

You want proof? I will give you proof.

Failed Change From Within

If you want to know more about the TWU before "your tenure" then read the Convention Proceedings from 1989, 1993, and the rest of 1997, then read 2001 while you are at it. It is really simple mojo, just call the International ask for publications and request the Convention Proceedings of those years.

Then come back here and tell us what you, Lee Doughty, and the mighty Local 530 former TWA employees are going to do that has not already been tried. You act as though we just crawled out from under a rock and don't know what we are talking about.

Get a grip dude, "They" are not your repsentatives, YOU are an elected offiical for christ's sake, who the hell are "they"? And "they" have been selling us out for twenty years. The Federal Government does not consider it "selling out" to change union representation. Who told you that? That's just the point mojo "WE" are supposed to be the union, and you are an elected official and even reference the union as "THEY" and "THEM".

You use the same thought process when discussing the AMFA drive. But let me assure you, the cards and support are not coming from someone referred to as "THEM", these cards and the support are coming from "US" the "UNION"!

 

[Raptor]

I remember Scott Davis and Kenyon wallace I worked with both of them, Scott in Hanger 3 and Kenyon in the structure shop they are both good guys that tried to make a difference, basically Mojo you have not been here long enough to know the TWU like many of the rest of us, tell us how you feel about the TWU after about 17 or 18 years worth of concessions and being at the bottom of the industry in pay and benefits, this last concessions was just the last straw for many, I myself did not make the switch untill this year but as I said it was just the last straw, the TWU only got us one good contract as far as I am concerned and we gave that one away 1 year after we got it.

AMFA has not destroyed anyone or anything and you know it, the layoffs are the company's fault not AMFA just as the layoffs at AA are the company's fault not the TWU, the TWU did make it easier for AA to layoff thousands by removing the job security clause voluntarily, but the truth is AA was going to lay those people off regardless of the job security clause just as Northwest did through Force Majeur, it would have costed AA more had we not removed the Job security clause but make no mistake about it, AA was going to have a massive layoff one way or the other, I say this from over 17 years of experience at AA.

AMFA = tough contract representation.

TWU = giving away the Farm.

Neither one of them have anything to do with the loss of jobs, use your brain man if you want to blame somone for the loss of jobs blame the company's that are doing the laying off, if you must hate someone hate them not the Unions.

Now go stick your head in the sand and continue not believing that it is your fellow Mechanics that are the ones wanting a change not an outside organization.
We asked AMFA to represent us they did not ask us and untill just recently all the money for the card drive came from Mechanics, I know brother I spent plenty on this drive, and I was glad to do it but I would not spend a dime to help the TWU stay or get them in anywhere that I was.

It is time for a change let go of your fear.

 

[Decision 2004]

According to Dan Garton Executive Vice President, Marketing:

Executive Speeches - Pow Wow St. Louis, Missouri May 20th, 2003

But then, along came a period that was altogether unique in the history of U.S. commercial aviation -- the mid-to-late 1990s. In those years, we had the wind at our backs. The economy was roaring, and demand for air travel -- and business travel in particular -- was soaring. Two big trends -- globalization and technology -- seemed to be transforming business, and both trends were great for the airlines. Globalization spurred trade, which required business travel. And the technology boom spurred unprecedented deal-making and drove business trips galore to and from places like San Jose, Boston, Austin and other technology hotbeds.

So tell us again mojo, AMFA preys on bad economic times and only shows up when things are bad? Truth is the membership wants change, not "AMFA" showed up somewhere at certain times to raid your union. Go tell that to Doughty the liar while you are it!

Read the SPEECH, and then relate this document to AMFA Organizing at AA and tell us again when why AMFA supporters are about the throw the TWU out the window!

NOTICE THE DATE ON THIS DOCUMENT:

QUOTE="HELP US MR. KRUSE!"

 

[Checking it Out]

Raptor, do you know what scope and contract language is? You heed to do a reality check!

All we have is our labor! If you destroy the language like amfa has, you have layoffs with no hope of recall rights!

 

[Checking it Out]

So what is your point? 04!

 

[mojo13]

Raptor. 2004, you guys are pretty informative but I don't believe a word of it. The items you brought up 04 really puzzle me. It looks like Bobby Gless was trying to change things but all you guys do is slam him. I really don't see what the big deal is and why it should change your life to hate the TWU.
BTW Lee Doughty is not a liar. I take offence to that.

 

[Decision 2004]

So what is your point? 04!

If you don't uderstand what the "point" is by now, then there isn't much hope for you.

However, I suspect you will have complete understanding of the "point" real soon.

Stand-by!

 

[Decision 2004]

BTW Lee Doughty is not a liar. I take offence to that.

Here is Mr. Lee Doughty, a former TWA employee from MCI in action:

Former TWA Employee Lee Doughty Telling TWU Members all about AMFA

It appears Lee Doughty is nothing more than a big advocate of concessions. Did that policy save TWA? No, in fact, AA bought them from a Bankruptcy Court after several rounds of industrial union concessions at that failed carrier, and that action nearly plunged AA into Bankruptcy and Lee Doughty obviously brought his generous worker handout and concessions policy with him and screwed us also!

Now here are a few facts regarding United Airlines and what happened with concessions there:

Is this AMFA rallying against concessions at UAL?




Here is more data for you:

The machinists rejected the proposed cuts 57 to 43 percent, the IAM said. With 37,500 members, the IAM is the airline's largest employee group.

Article on IAM rejections of agreements

"Each employee measured the costs and benefits of participating in United's recovery plan," Scotty Ford, president of IAM District 141-M, said in a statement. "In the end, some thought the risk was worth taking, and others felt they had sacrificed enough. We respect both decisions and this organization will aggressively represent their common interests as this extraordinary situation unfolds."

And there is more:

IAM - 86% Vote to authorize a strike

"There's a lot of anger, not only about the (contract offer) but by how the machinists have been treated in general, and I think the membership expressed their sentiment," said Scotty Ford, the president and general chairman of District 141M of the International Association of Machinists, which represents the United workers and is based in South San Francisco.

On Tuesday, with 90 percent of members voting, 68 percent of those voted to reject the contract offer and, separately, 86 percent voted to authorize a strike in the absence of an acceptable offer.

And still even more evidenceof the IAM not blaming AMFA but blaming the Governement:

IAM Condemns Loan Denial for UAL

Washington, D.C., December 4, 2002 -"The ATSB has miserably failed its mandate of assisting distressed airlines," said Tom Buffenbarger, International President of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM) on the rejection of United Airlines' application for a federal loan guarantee by the Air Transportation Stabilization Board (ATSB).

"Congress created the ATSB to assist an airline industry thrown into a financial tailspin by the 9-11 attacks," said Robert Roach, Jr., IAM General Vice President for Transportation. "IAM members were prepared to, once again, take extraordinary measures to protect their jobs and the family's future. But the ATSB has exceeded its statutory directive and is playing with the livelihoods of the working men and women at United Airlines."

IAM District 141-M, representing United's Mechanic & Related employees, had scheduled a vote on participation in United's recovery program for December 5, 2002. The terms being voted, as well as those previously ratified by IAM District 141 and all other labor groups, was contingent on the ATSB's approval of United's loan guarantee application.

"Tomorrow's ratification was set to be a vote on United's future," said Buffenbarger. "We were ready to partner with United, the Union Coalition and the government to return United Airlines into the nations premier carrier. Infortunately, the United States government walked out on that partnership. I am greatly disappointed in the President, the ATSB and all those who have turned their backs on United Airlines and its greatest asset - their employees."

"As a result of the ATSB's irresponsible actions," said Buffenbarger, "a vote on the current recovery package would be pointless, and has been canceled."

The International Association of Machinists represents over 37,000 United Airlines employees in the Ramp& Stores, Mechanic & Related, Public Contact, Food Service and Security employees. For more information about the Machinists Union, go to www.goiam.org.

Now Tell Lee Doughty to show us proof that "AMFA" told "1000's of members that they did not need to take concessions at UAL", and "AMFA" is to blame for those loss of jobs?

mojo, show us some facts to back up Lee's claims?

 

[Raptor]

CIO if you are so worried about how scope and language in a contract effects layoffs then maybe you should not have given away the Job protection that we had in our last contract, that did make it easier for AA to lay off thousands instead of having to pay them 12,500 AA paid them nothing, all thanks to the TWU giving away alot of our contract language, CIO I could go on and on about what language we use to have in our contract and no longer do thanks to guys like yourself.
So don't talk to me about contract language while you are giving it all away, AMFA has never given in to concessions and their language and contracts are much better than ours.

AMFA in 2004 give up your fear and join the revolution.

I am not afraid why are you ? maybe it is time to replace the TWU officers who are afraid to stand up to the company with someone who is not afraid to stand up to the company, AMFA supporters are not afraid to take chances it is only through risk than one gaines, that is why we have to threaten to go on strike in order to get anything from the company and when we make the threat we have to mean it too.
Nice afraid guys finnish last, tough brave guys finnish first.
which one are you CIO ?

Are you afraid of AA ?
Do you have the guts to stand up to AA. ?
Do you have the guts to put your job on the line by going on strike if need be to get what we deserve. ?

All of us have families and need money to put food on the table everyday but if you don't take the risks you will never get anywhere in life.

Stop being afraid CIO AMFA will not harm you or anybody else, they never have and they never will.
In fact all of our lives will be better under AMFA we will finally get a decent contract with decent language and KEEP IT for more than one year

 

[mojo13]

Hmojo, show us some facts to back up Lee's claims?[/b]
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Lee can answer for himself. If you have issues with him then I suggest you call him at Local 530.

 

[Decision 2004]

Lee can answer for himself. If you have issues with him then I suggest you call him at Local 530.

You sure seemed to want to answer for him earlier.

BTW Lee Doughty is not a liar. I take offence to that.

Oh he will get his chance to answer soon enough.

Meanwhile, why don't you post that phone number here and we will contact him?

 

[Raptor]

The question for you Mojo is who turned down the concessions AMFA or the IAM ?
Who was protesting in the pictures above AMFA or the IAM ?
It was not AMFA that turned down concessions at United it was in fact United Airlines IAM Union members who turned down concessions because they had guts to stand up to the company and I respect them for doing that.
If you never take any risks you will never gain anything, remember that.
It is not AMFA that is trying to represent Mechanics at AA it is Mechanics asking AMFA to represent them at AA not all but I suspect the Majority and we will soon find out the answer to that question.

 

[mojo13]

You sure seemed to want to answer for him earlier.


Oh he will get his chance to answer soon enough.

Meanwhile, why don't you post that phone number here and we will contact him?

You can find the number at the TWU site.

 

[Bob Owens]

Raptor. 2004, you guys are pretty informative but I don't believe a word of it. The items you brought up 04 really puzzle me. It looks like Bobby Gless was trying to change things but all you guys do is slam him. I really don't see what the big deal is and why it should change your life to hate the TWU.
BTW Lee Doughty is not a liar. I take offence to that.

If you want to know about Bobby Gless just call and ask for anyone in aircraft maintenance at JFK, LGA, EWR,BDL,BOS,SJU or PHL. Its easy enough to do. These are all stations where Bobby was a one term President who could not get reelected, thats why he ran to the International.

I worked beside him for three years.

Bobby sneaks in and out of the airports here and never dares to go "see the guys" like he reportedly tells people. A while back he wanted to get his Port ID renewed and he asked management to bring it out to the lot because he didnt want to go into the hangar.

If you trust him you will likely be sorry.

If the TWU were to act like a union then they would have the support of the members.