New Vote o Video from Local Presidents

[amt66]

I didnt say that, you are totally clueless, time to do a realityck, the TWU would force us to revote if the pilots accept. Thats what I said.

I would be very surprised if the pilots don't accept they know the alternative is a lot worse! That would leave the mechs and FA to face the judge

 

[Buck]

Actually, there are several that post here that sound like 3rd grade playground mentality. Resort to name calling as soon as they get upset. Usually an AMFA supporter yelling at a TWU supporter.

Considering that those AMFA supporters are TWU members, it would also mean that TWU supporters are being berated by TWU members.

While the 3rd grade mentality needs to be checked, so does the continual concessionary position the TWU has promoted over the last 30 years. Then there is a IBT support who is also a TWU member who lowered the standard of the 3rd graders to Kindergarten.

 

[Flying low]

Guess you didnt see the chart, we are at the bottom of the industry, over $16000 per year less than UAL which went through BK and is similarly structured, over $57,000 less per year from the top of our profession. What they are offering looks more like a different profession than a different employer.

Show me where any other work group at AA is being told to accept a payrate thats over 43% less than the top and 20% less than a carrier that has already gone through C-11.

So you are saying that rejecting and offer thats more than 20% lower than a carrier that already went BK, an offer that puts us at a greater disadavantage compared to any of our peers makes us look bad? At what point, according to you would it be acceptable for us to say no? Do they have to ask for your first born? They obviously already got both your left and right nuts .

Bob, I did see the charts and realize where we are in the industry. All I was saying that on judgement day, the company is going to say we offered these term sheets, then we offered the LBO which was an improvement and the union turned us down. Then we offered bigger pay raises in LBO2 and again the union turned us down. Company is just trying to look good in the eyes of the judge.

What's the union going to say on judgement day? Company is making money, they have $5+ billion in the bank and can afford to pay us somewhere in the middle of the pack?

Time will tell, we'll see who's right you and the vote no crowd, or overspeed & high speed and the few vote yes crowd...

 

[Buck]

I would be very surprised if the pilots don't accept they know the alternative is a lot worse! That would leave the mechs and FA to face the judge

Are you are indicating that there is a probability that some form of solidarity exists between the Pilots and the Mechanics/Flight Attendants?

 

[unionguy1]

Remember guys a yes vote is giving the Company the authority to say " you voted for it" 6 months from now when your complaining about the contract. Another "no" vote here at AFW.

 

[Flying low]

Considering that those AMFA supporters are TWU members, it would also mean that TWU supporters are being berated by TWU members.

While the 3rd grade mentality needs to be checked, so does the continual concessionary position the TWU has promoted over the last 30 years. Then there is a IBT support who is also a TWU member who lowered the standard of the 3rd graders to Kindergarten.

YES!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

The values assigned to the time off categories are dubious. If you value your time off on holidays, and you don't work them so you can spend the day off with your family and friends, then you don't earn all that extra pay shown on the chart. You just get the day off, with pay. If you don't get sick, and you go to work and do your job, then that line item is irrelevant, no matter where you work.

Yes, time off has real value to individuals, but you can't spend that "value" on mortgage payments or rent or utilities or food or property taxes or insurance. Banks don't allow you to claim it when you want to borrow money. It's time off, not income.

Since the holiday pay shown above is not guaranteed (unless you work at an airline where every AMT always works all the holidays), then you might as well add potential overtime opportunities to the chart. Just like holiday pay, it's extra money for extra work.

Weak, very weak.
These are max values and the assumptions were the same across the board. As long as the same assumptions are used then the values are clearly valid.
These are the same assumptions the company uses in negotiations.
Heavy Turbine mechanics were used, ran out of room so Fed Ex was not included.
Holidays on the line is pretty much a given, we normally work ALL of them. Holidays are also predictable as they are defined in the contract, overtime isnt so there is no way to quantify it.
As a numbers guy you recognize the concept of "opportunity cost" right? The scarce resource here is time, most of our guys work second jobs, so while a vacation may not add dollars to you annual income from AA it does allow our guys to use that paid time off at their second job without loss of time at AA. So it does end up as more money in their pockets and they are able to do it because they earned the vacation.If other mechanics get more vacation they have the opportunity to turn that PTO into more cash. The company incraeses our hourly rate for cost purposes and includes it in their "Total Value " Statement. Value is not always defined as CASH.
If anything the assumptions favor the company, for instance I used a 20 year mechanic, If I used a New Hire then the results would be even more dramatic, if we went to bottom of scale ven more dranmatic as most of our competeitors dont have guys making minimum wage in their mechanics contracts. .

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, I did see the charts and realize where we are in the industry. All I was saying that on judgement day, the company is going to say we offered these term sheets, then we offered the LBO which was an improvement and the union turned us down. Then we offered bigger pay raises in LBO2 and again the union turned us down. Company is just trying to look good in the eyes of the judge.

What's the union going to say on judgement day? Company is making money, they have $5+ billion in the bank and can afford to pay us somewhere in the middle of the pack?

Time will tell, we'll see who's right you and the vote no crowd, or overspeed & high speed and the few vote yes crowd...

Can the company walk in and expect the Judge to impose a contract on Exxon that makes Exxon sell fuel to AA for 20% less than what Exxon charges United? Does C-11 makes AA's plan to make $3 billion a year legally superior to exxons wish to sell its product for the best price it can negotiate?

NO.

So what is the legal basis to force workers under a CBA to work for terms that are less than the market rate for the labor they provide?

Everyone seems to forget that back in 2003 we at AA set the new market rate, we were not in BK and we lowered our compensation by 25% (more buts thats what we were given credit for). When UAL, USAIR and delta went before the Judge they could all point to the fact that the largest carrier in the country at the time, AA had cut their labor rates way below theirs. AA cant point at anybody, there is no one uder us. Will it matter to the Judge, will he play Pontius Pilot and blame his decision on the twisted interpretations of those who came before him? I dont know or care, because all he can do is Rip up the contract. Then we have to do what we must do.

Read the law, see what it says the purpose of BK is, then ask yourself is the law being applied as it was intended as defined in the language. read the RLA as well. Then read the history of bankruptcy in this country and see how the laws were repealed on several occasions because the law was corrupted and abused. Nobody ever filed BK with $4 billion in the bank and the lowest wages in the industry before AA. Yes it means there's a fight ahead of us, thats the choice you have to make, give everything that you worked for away and be a slave or fight for what is right.

 

[Hopeful]

Should the judge abrogate the contract....I sense a battle ahead in the courts should a 6 year TERM ALSO BE IMPOSED.

 

[Buck]

Beyond the possible abrogation of the contract, a six year term could cause a question in who represents the mechanics at AA.

 

[Hopeful]

Beyond the possible abrogation of the contract, a six year term could cause a question in who represents the mechanics at AA.

Yes....it's going to be a battle royale...The company believes 6 years will be the term, the union believes otherwise.

Whatever the term of the contract, and even if we switch unions, we are stuck with the contract til expiration.

 

[Realityck]

Just admit that you do not know, and it may not be as bad as all of you fear mongers are clamoring about.


Well, we could always ask Owens to brush off his crystal ball and give us another one of his famous predictions even though they haven't worked too well yet. Actually, we don't have to do that. We'll know for ourselves in the next few weeks, or months, or years.

Keep that AMFA kool-aid flowing!

 

[TWU informer]

Just admit that you do not know, and it may not be as bad as all of you fear mongers are clamoring about.


Well, we could always ask Owens to brush off his crystal ball and give us another one of his famous predictions even though they haven't worked too well yet. Actually, we don't have to do that. We'll know for ourselves in the next few weeks, or months, or years.

Keep that AMFA kool-aid flowing!

Just I thought, you claim him to be wrong but do not even know yourself.

That is the TWU fear and I hope more than anything that we stand together and find out the truth.

 

[DNTULSA]

Just admit that you do not know, and it may not be as bad as all of you fear mongers are clamoring about.


Well, we could always ask Owens to brush off his crystal ball and give us another one of his famous predictions even though they haven't worked too well yet. Actually, we don't have to do that. We'll know for ourselves in the next few weeks, or months, or years.

Keep that AMFA kool-aid flowing!

raptorman,

Is this you?

 

[Bob Owens]

I would be very surprised if the pilots don't accept they know the alternative is a lot worse! That would leave the mechs and FA to face the judge

Thats OK too.