New Vote o Video from Local Presidents

[FWAAA]

Paying over $600 a year to make $20,000 a year less than NON-UNION is an injustice.

What was AA's response when you offered to tear up your contract and work under jetBlue's terms (and workrules) in exchange for jetBlue's payscale?

 

[Overspeed]

So now that you two can reveal the company strategy, please spell out for us in detail what will happen when this T/A is voted down? I already asked Lee Seham and have that answer, now give us your version.

I am very interested to know what you two experts can offer as to WHAT WILL HAPPEN next,

I know what will happen if this is ratified with the exception of the yet to be negotiated issues still open.

But you seem to have inside knowledge as to what the Judge will rule, and then what the Company will do.

Put your stake on those speculations and spell it out for us all right here and now!!!

From the Seham law firm? Nice. Isn't that the firm that bragged about bringing in the B scale for the AA pilots in the 80s?


Martin Seham wrote proudly of this accomplishment in Cleared for Takeoff: Airline Labor Relations Since Deregulation.

As general counsel to the Allied Pilots Association (APA), the independent certified representative of the American Airlines pilots, I was close to the negotiations that resulted, in 1983, in one of the earliest realization of the two-tier system. APA was not faced with an insolvent or failing carrier; it was, however, forced to deal with an economic environment that had changed dramatically because of the effects of deregulation and was, by virtue of its independence, mandated to reach an agreement consistent with the needs and objectives of its constituency.​

—Martin C. Seham​

 

[Overspeed]

Guess you didnt see the chart, we are at the bottom of the industry, over $16000 per year less than UAL which went through BK and is similarly structured, over $57,000 less per year from the top of our profession. What they are offering looks more like a different profession than a different employer.

Show me where any other work group at AA is being told to accept a payrate thats over 43% less than the top and 20% less than a carrier that has already gone through C-11.

So you are saying that rejecting and offer thats more than 20% lower than a carrier that already went BK, an offer that puts us at a greater disadavantage compared to any of our peers makes us look bad? At what point, according to you would it be acceptable for us to say no? Do they have to ask for your first born? They obviously already got both your left and right nuts .

You still don't get it. The BK process is a way to reduce costs. If that number is $200M for example, then AA proposes a plan on how to get there. For whatever reason they proposed the 3/22 term sheet with all its nasty rules and wage rates. If you are suggesting we should have gotten the pay rates up then you would need to exchange something to keep within the confines of the $200M goal (still an example). You are arguing what? Values? I guarantee the judge will give that some weight but not enough to get the wages you want. That said then the only thing to do to get all the way to the wage you want is outsource something. The HC's? LC's? Mods? BC's? CFP's? Close Class IIs? What? You can't raise everyone's wages without giving up something somewhere else. If you are arguing that all AA's values all BS then you have already lost the argument. The UCC is never going to agree to any contract that drives up or keeps costs flat. They will propose their POR at the end of exclusivity and it could be much worse than what AA is proposing. Wake up Bob.

 

[Overspeed]

Overspeed I have asked you repeatedly about your comment on the TWU /IBT alliance that you mentioned a few weeks back but you never seem to answer so I will ask again can you tell us what you ment about that alliance

The alliance has to do with organizing the unorganized in the airline and aircraft maintenance industry.

 

[Tex-Mech]

The alliance has to do with organizing the unorganized in the airline and aircraft maintenance industry.

Okay...I guess that explains why they are organizing us.

 

[TWU informer]

You still don't get it. The BK process is a way to reduce costs. If that number is $200M for example, then AA proposes a plan on how to get there. For whatever reason they proposed the 3/22 term sheet with all its nasty rules and wage rates. If you are suggesting we should have gotten the pay rates up then you would need to exchange something to keep within the confines of the $200M goal (still an example). You are arguing what? Values? I guarantee the judge will give that some weight but not enough to get the wages you want. That said then the only thing to do to get all the way to the wage you want is outsource something. The HC's? LC's? Mods? BC's? CFP's? Close Class IIs? What? You can't raise everyone's wages without giving up something somewhere else. If you are arguing that all AA's values all BS then you have already lost the argument. The UCC is never going to agree to any contract that drives up or keeps costs flat. They will propose their POR at the end of exclusivity and it could be much worse than what AA is proposing. Wake up Bob.

I am waiting for you spell out what specifically AA will do if the Judge abbrogates the labor agreement?

If you have all the answers then tell us what AA will do upon abbrogation, if that is the Judges decision?

My opinion they will request to implement this T/A and we will negotiate from there. I have no proof that will happen, but you have no proof it wont, or that the outcome will be worse.

 

[TWU informer]

The alliance has to do with organizing the unorganized in the airline and aircraft maintenance industry.

I call BS on that, not the context you used the term alliance. Not even close.

 

[1AA]

Bob you still don't get it!!! You and your followers are the problem!!!! You and them have burnt bridges and are doing the membership an injustice!!!!


You became a President for one purpose only!! To "Destroy the TWU" in hopes of AMFA coming in. The majority have consistently took a stand and did not sign a card but you in the minority still can’t comprehend this!!!!

You need to come to terms with yourself along with your followers and admit you mis-judged AA and screwed up! Because of your "Its not my fault Attitude" AA is walking all over you and Us!!!!

In Solidarity,

CIO

Now that is funny. ROLMFAO

 

[1AA]

I would like to see the calculations on VC, Holiday, and SK value. MBA Bob calculations and methodologies have been suspect for sometime now.

Where is the outsourcing percentage underneath?

UPS outsources all their engines, components, most of their airframe overhaul, line maintenance work on aircraft that fly international, and have part time AMTs. Is it his intention to do away with TUL, AFW, many class II stations, and bring in part time to AMTs?

WN outsources all but four lines of overhaul. Is it his intention to outsource all of PALM, TAESL, CRO, TUL AO, and AFW and just keep DWH open to get WN wages?

B6 has no overhaul at all. Is it his intention to close TUL, AFW, and DWH?

UA and DL outsources all airframe overhaul. Is it his intention to drop TUL AO, AFW, and DWH?

US outsources all WB overhaul and a portion of engines. Is it his intention to drop AFW and DWH and just keep TUL?

This chart does not give the whole picture. Very poor analysis that lacks critical thinking.

I think this chart says it all. The whole story.

 

[1AA]

You still don't get it. The BK process is a way to reduce costs. If that number is $200M for example, then AA proposes a plan on how to get there. For whatever reason they proposed the 3/22 term sheet with all its nasty rules and wage rates. If you are suggesting we should have gotten the pay rates up then you would need to exchange something to keep within the confines of the $200M goal (still an example). You are arguing what? Values? I guarantee the judge will give that some weight but not enough to get the wages you want. That said then the only thing to do to get all the way to the wage you want is outsource something. The HC's? LC's? Mods? BC's? CFP's? Close Class IIs? What? You can't raise everyone's wages without giving up something somewhere else. If you are arguing that all AA's values all BS then you have already lost the argument. The UCC is never going to agree to any contract that drives up or keeps costs flat. They will propose their POR at the end of exclusivity and it could be much worse than what AA is proposing. Wake up Bob.

According to your claims we need to go lower than where we are right now. I think I'll start using my Rosetta Stone Chinese lessons. Because if we go any lower we will be in China.

 

[Realityck]

I am waiting for you spell out what specifically AA will do if the Judge abbrogates the labor agreement?

If you have all the answers then tell us what AA will do upon abbrogation, if that is the Judges decision?


I recall reading a statement recently from Bob Owens giving us one of his famous predictions. If we turn down the T/A the judge will force AA to have you revote before he abrogates the contract. So now you know what's going to happen! Bob always has all the answers.

 

[TWU informer]

I am waiting for you spell out what specifically AA will do if the Judge abbrogates the labor agreement?

If you have all the answers then tell us what AA will do upon abbrogation, if that is the Judges decision?


I recall reading a statement recently from Bob Owens giving us one of his famous predictions. If we turn down the T/A the judge will force AA to have you revote before he abrogates the contract. So now you know what's going to happen! Bob always has all the answers.

I ask you for a specifc answer and all you do is attack Bob Owens.

I am waiting for you spell out what specifically AA will do if the Judge abbrogates the labor agreement?

If you have all the answers then tell us what AA will do upon abbrogation, if that is the Judges decision?

So every Industrial Unionist has a specific method of not answering and deflecting attention away from the question by attacking a person.

This must be how you negotiate against the company also, and why card drives are always happening.

Just admit that you do not know, and it may not be as bad as all of you fear mongers are clamoring about.

 

[FWAAA]

The values assigned to the time off categories are dubious. If you value your time off on holidays, and you don't work them so you can spend the day off with your family and friends, then you don't earn all that extra pay shown on the chart. You just get the day off, with pay. If you don't get sick, and you go to work and do your job, then that line item is irrelevant, no matter where you work.

Yes, time off has real value to individuals, but you can't spend that "value" on mortgage payments or rent or utilities or food or property taxes or insurance. Banks don't allow you to claim it when you want to borrow money. It's time off, not income.

Since the holiday pay shown above is not guaranteed (unless you work at an airline where every AMT always works all the holidays), then you might as well add potential overtime opportunities to the chart. Just like holiday pay, it's extra money for extra work.

Yes, AA's pay and benefits are at the bottom of the airlines shown on the chart. Notice that the chart doesn't include Republic/Frontier or any other regional airlines, no matter the size of those regionals, even where those regional mechanics are represented by unions. Looks like about 17,000 maintenance and related at various airlines are more highly compensated than at AA. How many are paid less?

 

[TWU informer]

The values assigned to the time off categories are dubious. If you value your time off on holidays, and you don't work them so you can spend the day off with your family and friends, then you don't earn all that extra pay shown on the chart. You just get the day off, with pay. If you don't get sick, and you go to work and do your job, then that line item is irrelevant, no matter where you work.

Yes, time off has real value to individuals, but you can't spend that "value" on mortgage payments or rent or utilities or food or property taxes or insurance. Banks don't allow you to claim it when you want to borrow money. It's time off, not income.

Since the holiday pay shown above is not guaranteed (unless you work at an airline where every AMT always works all the holidays), then you might as well add potential overtime opportunities to the chart. Just like holiday pay, it's extra money for extra work.

Yes, AA's pay and benefits are at the bottom of the airlines shown on the chart. Notice that the chart doesn't include Republic/Frontier or any other regional airlines, no matter the size of those regionals, even where those regional mechanics are represented by unions. Looks like about 17,000 maintenance and related at various airlines are more highly compensated than at AA. How many are paid less?

That is about the most lame psot I have ever seen you make here. Wow

That is how AA would calculate All-In rate if the other carriers had lost all of those items and AA want to screw us out of them. Cannot be both ways,

 

[chris perry]

It's totally clear FWAAA has no idea how holiday pay works at the airlines in line maintenance.We all get holiday pay all of the holidays because we have to work it.If we are off on a holiday our next day back is holiday pay.So the numbers are real and AA's suck.

This contract stinks like ####,smells like #### and is #### period.Your talking about a Airline that's going to have record numbers above and beyond DELTA ever dreamed, much less some pee-on Frontier airline. All at the expense of employee's.