New Vote o Video from Local Presidents

[Ghost tech]

Palm I think.

 

[Overspeed]

Well now we have two professional, educated, and experienced people lay out how voting yes is the logical decision. That being said, will the illogical decision be made? Will people believe Bob "I can see Wall Street from my house" Owens in that these people are wrong or will they listen and accept the facts that the deck is stacked against us.

We have a date with destiny coming soon.

 

[Vortilon]

Who is paying his FEEs Overspeed?

 

[JABORD]

Well now we have two professional, educated, and experienced people lay out how voting yes is the logical decision. That being said, will the illogical decision be made? Will people believe Bob "I can see Wall Street from my house" Owens in that these people are wrong or will they listen and accept the facts that the deck is stacked against us.

We have a date with destiny coming soon.

Aren't you a professional,educated and experienced person mr smartguy? Do any of these 'genius's' that you cherish put their pants on any different than the rest of us? I will not voluntarily give them anything!! They will have to pry it from my hands! I can only hope you folks in TUL put aside your panic and grow some pride in yourselves.

 

[whatajoke]

What makes you think everyone on here is following bob.
I am not, I voted for the 2010 ta. Looking at the situation we were not going to gain anything better but be in a better position going into bankcruptcy.

 

[strikeforce]

What's a high dollar attorney charge a union for going on camera and reading a written message? Oh wait the company is flipping the bill as long as they get a yes vote.

Hmmm does Jim Little have access to preliminary vote results. He sure is pushing alot of propaganda.

right on brother! the INTL is in desperation mode because they know LBO 2 is going down brother.

 

[Bob Owens]

Well now we have two professional, educated, and experienced people lay out how voting yes is the logical decision. That being said, will the illogical decision be made? Will people believe Bob "I can see Wall Street from my house" Owens in that these people are wrong or will they listen and accept the facts that the deck is stacked against us.

We have a date with destiny coming soon.

I guess it comes down to "Do you trust the International and the people they hire to serve their interests or do you trust people you elected and also have to live under the agreement? Like I said, if this passes it will liklely mean more work for people like Tom Roth and Sharon Levine. What they both left out is that part of the settlement is that AA will pay Tom, Sharon and all the other TWU expenses. Funny that he didnt mention that. We tried to hire our own lawyers but the International refused to allow them to sit in, now you know why.

The same body, the ATD told us in 2003 that we had to give up 25% of our pay to keep AA out of Bankruptcy and that if they did file we would be better off because we already gave so much. The same International that is telling us to accept a deal that will leave us at the bottom of the industry for at least 6 more years.

Tom also talks about the USAIR Merger, well talk about speculation!!! What happens if AA doesnt merge? Then we are stuck with this for at least six more years.

Tom also authored the misleading chart on past bankruptcies, at the reequest of the International no doubt, what he failed to mention is that those carriers took those cuts to try and catch up to what we had given away outside of BK.

Tom said the deal offers improved Medical, but leaves out that he means improved compared to what we need to reject, its not improved over what we now have.

Bad advice from people who dont have to live under the terms and are treated like royalty by the company as they fly around on A-4 Positive space First class tickets have put us at the very bottom of the industry, and we arent talking small change either, we are talking roughly $8/hr from the middle of the industry, $57,000 from the top.

We know that Bankruptcy does not favor workers, but we also can read the law, the law says that C-11 was put in place to allow debtors to escape from onerous terms from creditors, it does not say that it's there to allow debtors to impose onerous terms on creditors, and thats exactly what this deal does and why we must say no.

Tom finishes his statement saying that senior guys who wont be affected by the layoff dont care about the younger guys who will be laid off and if we were good union men we should lower the standard for all mechanics in the industry to save 2000 jobs, well Tom tell us how those 2000 will be saved? Show us the language that says they will not layoff the extra 2000 people anyway. Maybe you should stick to the numbers, if they can outsource 35% of the total maintenence spend appoximately how many jobs is that Tom? Yes the number can vary, but whats the most likely outcome? Do the math, assuming that they take a middle of the road approach that doesnt drive the headcount down disproportionately to the spend. Whats 35% of 11500 Tom? 4025 The language that we are agreeing to would allow the company to outsource 4025 jobs if the spend stayed where it is now. But whats likely to happen Tom? You know because you mentioned it in negotiations, spend will likely decrease with the arrival of new aircraft, which will allow them to eliminate even more jobs because as the total spend and demand for labor decreases the company can eliminate and layoff well past the 4025 and still not exceed the 35% cap.The cap only limits the outsourcing of jobs, if jobs are eliminated due to less work they do not count, ther is no limit to that. So if by giving up system protection you lose your job does it really matter if the job was simply eliminated vs outsourced?

Tom what happens if they decide to bail out of Taesl? We dont even have a solid number but have agreed that they can raise that 35% cap "accordingly". Lets say its 10% , now they can outsource that work and those jobs as well, now using the same assumptions its up to 5175 jobs. I realize that the TWU International is paying your salary and we can tell from your body language and expression that you didnt feel too comfortable reading the prepared script, come on Tom, who wrote the last paragraph? Was it Mark Richard?

You claim that you arent telling us how to vote, but come clean Tom, you are only telling us reasons to accept, so stop pretending to be neutral, at least I'm honest about it. But if you were truly neutral you would have told the members as Mike Quill did that you wont get anything unless you are willing to fight for it. Mike Quill faced hostile Judges as well, he said that the judge could "Drop dead in his long black robe". and that if the MTA did not strike a deal that he would take his members on strike, and despite the injunction he did. You spin the LBO2 as an improvement and say we are getting a 16% increase over the term. Well you know thats not true, only our base wage will be adjusted, so the total wage increase is closer to 12% over the ten year term, it wont cover what we will have to put in our 401k to pay for retiree medical and the loss of the DB pension let alone inflation, failed to mention that "Mr Neutral". You also fail to mention the gutting of workrules and other concessions. You know, the ones they didnt value fairly.

So other than the fact the company says that voting yes "may" save 2000 jobs we have nothing else to support that claim. What did you say on the conference call when we were in New York? You said we "may end up getting industry wages by continueing to negotiate after abrogation but if they outsource the jobs you probably wont get them back". Well Tom the jobs may not come back, but the people do, if they want to. Attrition and recall. The Junior guys will have something worth coming back to. Layoffs suck, I've been there, I never expected them to accept concessions to keep me working, thats why we value seniority and thats how unions work. Your way leads to taking everyone to the bottom.

Like I said, remember that Sharon and Tom were hired by the International, the same International that led mechanics to the bottom of the industry while taking a lot better care of other workers at AA. They same Internatioanl that told us to accept concessions that established a new low for mechanics. The same International that said that we would get it all back in 2003. The same International that brought us the 1995 ME Too Clause. So listening to Tom and Sharon will get you the same place that listening to the International has, to new lows.

Remember if we vote yes they all make out, the International gets the company to pick up the tab and Tom and Sharon and Mark walk away with a lot of money and set the stage for another round of airline bankruptcies as the race to the bottom continues.

Yea if we vote no it will get ugly, but it needs to. This is not what we went into this industry for, we already lost eight years, we should not give them another six.

 

[Overspeed]

Once again put who above UA,CO and DL? Not anyone at the bases, or on day shift or afternoon shift on the line. Not any of our Title II guys no matter what hours they worked. The only ones would be those guys on nights who started after 8pm and before 5am. So if they started the guys at 1959 they would not have to pay them MRT which provided AA with the $1.50 cushion that they could use to claim that we made more. More spin from Overspin.

Thats your opinion, and you do so from behind an alias, I put my name to what I do or say.

Unwilling to make any compromises? You sound like management. Where have we not been compromising? We are at the bottom of the industry in all facets of pay. We are giving up the pension. We have the worst work rules as far as OT. We are allowing them to cut headcount by over 2000.

Judge Lane may abrogate, and after three failed votes and two organizations looking to unseat the TWU maybe Jim Little will realize that Dons plan of draging things out until we will accept anything, and punishing us for not accepting the 2008 extension or the 2010 agreement is a failure and will step in and take all Dons puppets out of the process and truly turn it over to the guys who know what the members want, or maybe a new union with something to prove will be here instead. The members voted down the 2010 agreement, then the International-Don, made sure we got nowhere by setting up a subcommitttee with no real power to negotiate till they filed for BK, we voted down the First Last best offer, and now we face yet another vote pushed out there by pretty much the same people who pushed for the 2010 TA. In most unions after one failed vote the people who recommended it are removed and no longer get to be on the committee, well our members have to wait for an election to do that and even then sometimes it doesnt happen, Nearly everyone who voted to bring the 2010 TA back who faced an election was removed so far, however some get to still stay on the committee even though they were voted out of office!!!

The pilots got them to lower the ask by 15%, then the flight attendants by 35% and neither of them are at the bottom of the industry like we are.

A yes vote will guarantee that we will stay at the bottom for six more years.

The bases were up against the industry standard of outsourcing that was set by UA, CO, DL, and US in BK and the non-BK carriers B6 and WN. They are up against the same issue now however now through the BK process AA is going to just outsource the AO work. So now the AO base guys will be laid off instead of working for $33/hour. That's no spin Bob. But don't worry, you have leads on MROs hiring at $17/hour in SEA right? Keep those hot leads coming. I am sure it will soothe the pain of losing their AO jobs in TUL while you keep "fighting" for industry leading wages for those fortunate few that get to stay on. people like you that love to act tough playing with other people's jobs.

Bob, this is BK. Not negotiations. AA only has to check and confer. The target is the target and voting the TA down only helps confirm their argument in court that the TWU membership has been unwilling to adjust to the market realities. Either outsource the work or continue working as we are and accept lower wages. You cannot have both. Test the judge, vote no and we will find out if you or the experts are right.

So it's Don V's fault for you and your buddies recommending a no vote? I suppose he has the ability to control the NMB, the courts, and the AA management now? Wow, you sound a bit paranoid Bob. They have meds for that.

So people were voted out of office like Steve Luis and you praised Cirri. Now he started thinking about the situation and came to a conclusion other than your own and you are upset. Go figure. "Puppets"? Okay, you have people like that in your video. Rojas and Peterson at least stayed on script but JR "Turd Sandwich Deluxe" Ruiz was left to his own devices and went off on his own message which was, "...it's a turd sandwich with lettuce and tomato on top." Brilliant. Will those guys be your star experts in your new organization after the TWU is alleged unseated. Isn't that what you wanted all along? To get rid of the overhaul guys and get in AMFA. You were giddy about it on this blog in 2004.

Keep name calling Bob. When you get called out on the complete facts, not the cherry picked, out of context facts, you resort to attacking the person not the facts.

The Joint Group got the same as the APA due to the "me-too". The TWU had that aspect covered.

 

[Bob Owens]

ream show tomorrow in tulsa does anyone know where on the base he will be.

Ask him why he was telling the line guys that they need to vote this in so they can outsource unprofitable work then pay the line guys what other airlines pay their line guys.

 

[Ghost tech]

What are you smoking bob? We have already given them 9 years. As long as you stay in your position you probably won't feel the Pay issue will you? Are you not making more as president than you would if you were back on the box? You knew that Aa would do what the other carriers did. If we would have voted in the 2010 deal we would not be last. Saying Aa can't out source maintenance soon is way off the mark. The mro's all already tooling up. You probably already know or knew that 2014 is going to be an issue. Please let us know how we will be better off letting this get ugly. Aa was going after our medical just like the others if you could not see that you should probably retire and try to enjoy fishing.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

If Tom Roth is on your team, you are indeed in trouble. He is the one who stands to make the most on your quandary. He was the finance guy the IAMAW had around to sell us concessions at NWA back in the '90's.

He was skewered at the local 2665 hall back then by the members who refused to sing from his hymnal. He and his ilk drove the membership to toss the IAMAW and choose the AMFA.

 

[700UW]

I know Tom and Sharon, they both work for companies, those companies will get paid, Tom and Sharon all ready draw a paycheck.

And they are bound by laws and ethics, they wont lie for the TWU as their companies will get paid one way or another, the TWU will pay them, and the TWU will SOL if AA doesnt reimburse them.

And to say that those two individuals will say what ever the TWU wants them too is a blatant falsehood.

I have worked with Tom and Sharon and saw them both in court, Sharon was our lead attorney in both chapter 11 cases and during the 1113 e hearing she did convince the judge to lessen the emergency paycut and some other items.

 

[Bob Owens]

The Joint Group got the same as the APA due to the "me-too". The TWU had that aspect covered.

Are any of those groups earning $8/hr less than the median wage for their peer group?

 

[Tex-Mech]

Time for a flashback, and how several locals had the vision of the sellout to come, but were threatened, if I recall correctly, not to get their own lawyers. This in light of the latest videos from Roth and Levine makes you think how we could of done if we had lawyers with mechanics interests first.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2011/12/twu-leadership-to-locals-were.html/

TWU leadership to locals: We’re handling the AA bankruptcy case, not you
tmaxon
[email protected]

Transport Workers Union international president Jim Little sent a letter Thursday to TWU local presidents and international representatives at American Airlines and American Eagle with a clear message:
TWU international leaders will handle TWU’s interests in the AMR bankruptcy case, not the locals.
“TWU wants the TWU locals at American and American Eagle to have a role in this process, to assist TWU as assigned by the International in accord with the TWU Constitution; however, we will lend no comfort or assistance to any effort to undermine the need for TWU to speak with a single, united voice in court,” Little wrote.
TWU has “an expert professional team, including experienced bankruptcy counsel who has represented unions in major airline bankruptcies,” and TWU will consider the perspectives of locals among others, he wrote.
“Once we take a position on a given issue, though, it is vital that TWU speak with one voice to the Bankruptcy Court,” Little wrote. “To proceed differently would be to significantly diminish effectiveness of our union voice.”
If the TWU locals want to hire their own bankruptcy counsel, the union “will not stand in the way” as long as the locals pay for it themselves without help from TWU, he wrote.
However, “we believe it wasteful and confusing and urge locals not to be involved in such extravagant efforts,” Little opined.
He concluded:

“The bankruptcy process that we are all about to undergo is too critical to each and every TWU member who works for American Airlines or American Eagle to allow it to become the play-thing of politics as usual. We must not allow internal union politics to undermine our ability to address the issues that we will be facing in Bankruptcy Court over the next months. Let us tackle the difficult months that now face us in unity and solidarity and, when the ordeal is over, perhaps this experience of working together will have opened the way to a newly vitalized and strengthened union.”​

TWU is one of nine representatives on the committee of unsecured creditors, as are the Allied Pilots Association and the Association of Professional Flight Attendants.

 

[strikeforce]

I would be out selling this POS sandwich for the company if AA is picking up the tab for the TWU's expenses. And, would you call that a conflict of interest when the company who's ready to decimate you agrees to pick up the tab.....in exchange for what???? you guessed it....to demolish your livlihoods! How pathetic is that! I don't even work for the company anymore and I will vote NO! The TWU needs to go...like yesterday!