New TWU president talks tough against DOJ lawsuit, American Airlines layoffs, industry outsourcing

[Overspeed]

Nice try again overspeed. The 35% at AA is of maint spend, NOT 35% of total maint done. Which will become a lot more than the 45% @ UA, US, or DL. You need to read and understand the verbage more closely. Haha, keep posting, your doing fine...

35% of direct labor, material, and OSS spend. I did read the language which is very close to actual spend. Have you looked at the percentage of OSS spend lately? Through three quarters even under the new CBA the TWU keeps more maintenance spend in-house (work) than any other airline. AMFA at SWA is only getting beaten on outsourcing by non-union jetBlue. Great scope language AMFA at AS and SWA, you are helping non-union low wage AMTs get jobs truly trickle down unionism. And as long as you keep lying I will keep posting. HA HA

American 25.72% Delta 41.26% United 47.33% US Airways 56.49% Southwest 60.79% jetBlue 66.35% Alaska 52.13%

 

[Overspeed]

What Scope? AA is not going to keep people around if there is no work to be performed. Hence the outsourcing and new aircraft.

Read your own post. If the work is going down due to new aircraft then what work will be outsourced? If there is no HC there is no HC to outsource. There will be LCs and Phase Checks as well as mods. So work load was dropping regardless of scope clause langauge. It will drop a bit more but when you are not outsourcing $1B for overhauls then your OSS spend drops $350M.

 

[dfw gen]

Read your own post. If the work is going down due to new aircraft then what work will be outsourced? If there is no HC there is no HC to outsource. There will be LCs and Phase Checks as well as mods. So work load was dropping regardless of scope clause langauge. It will drop a bit more but when you are not outsourcing $1B for overhauls then your OSS spend drops $350M.

now they can layoff at will with no protection! way to go twu!

 

[TWU informer]

So then you are convinced we should have just let AA filed BK in 2003, push the judge to rule, and then most likely end up like UA, US, or DL? Go to 45% outsourcing? That's the industry average which is higher than the 35% AA is capped at now under the TWU CBA. The main reason TUL will shrink over the coming years is new aircraft and lower maintenance requirements not scope language.

You must forget about the hidden SERP, and the fact that James C Little admitted that a large number of members were not given a chance to vote and that the only way to have a legitmate agreement was a complete revote by the members, only to sign off "without further ratification". And you are also incorrect on scope, the job losses at Tulsa and at AA are going to be due to both New Aircraft and the 35% in the scope language you advocated . Go ahead and bury your head in the sand and pretend the 35% outsourcing has nothing to do with job losses, that is typical TWU supporter mentality, which is always deny and blame someone or something else for complete failure. Your post are clear, your arguement is that TWU might suck, but not as bad as other unions suck, but you piece meal out certain labor agreement items to meet your opinion instead of comparing ALL pay, benefits, and scope language. When ALL is compared TWU sucks worse than anyone else does. You even issue rhetoric that is clear piggy backing on the pay of others in the indsutry that you say have it so bad via the industry wage adjustment.

 

[Overspeed]

now they can layoff at will with no protection! way to go twu!

Did you think the judge was going to leave that in if we went to abrogation? There was no way for AA to get either of their outsourcing goals without dropping or modifying system protection. AA was getting rid of system protection no matter what.

 

[MCI transplant]

Did you think the judge was going to leave that in if we went to abrogation? There was no way for AA to get either of their outsourcing goals without dropping or modifying system protection. AA was getting rid of system protection no matter what.

Isn't it the TWU's job to try and stop that? Or what are the membership paying them to do? Set on their hands?

 

[Overspeed]

You must forget about the hidden SERP, and the fact that James C Little admitted that a large number of members were not given a chance to vote and that the only way to have a legitmate agreement was a complete revote by the members, only to sign off "without further ratification". And you are also incorrect on scope, the job losses at Tulsa and at AA are going to be due to both New Aircraft and the 35% in the scope language you advocated . Go ahead and bury your head in the sand and pretend the 35% outsourcing has nothing to do with job losses, that is typical TWU supporter mentality, which is always deny and blame someone or something else for complete failure. Your post are clear, your arguement is that TWU might suck, but not as bad as other unions suck, but you piece meal out certain labor agreement items to meet your opinion instead of comparing ALL pay, benefits, and scope language. When ALL is compared TWU sucks worse than anyone else does. You even issue rhetoric that is clear piggy backing on the pay of others in the indsutry that you say have it so bad via the industry wage adjustment.

No I did not forget the SERP. That was BS but Corp America does that crap everyday to the working people and regulators let it happen.

The first chunk of RIFs dropped from TUL and AFW right after the BK CBA was ratified was due to the new scope language. Most future HC reductions will be a result of new aircraft. We are both right.

I don't piecemeal out anything. I already stated that there were swaps to maintain jobs. The labor leverage has been weak since late 2001. You know that. That being said the TWU did the least worst compared to all other airlines in and out of BK. I guess we could have just revoted and let Carty get his SERP and give us complete screw job back in 2003. I admit, by now all that were left would have received a good raise. And most airframe would be outsourced along with most back shops. Engine and CRO would have probably stayed on. Using UA, CO, and DL as a rule of thumb the HC would probably be around 5,400 today. Count down 5,400 and see if you are above or below the line. Where would you be? No A&P? No job on the line unfortunately.

 

[Overspeed]

Isn't it the TWU's job to try and stop that? Or what are the membership paying them to do? Set on their hands?

Yes it is the TWU's job and they did try. Have you read the reports on court. The judge thought the TWU membership did a great job of cutting costs but that had no bearing on whether or not the contract could be abrogated. The only provision the pilots got was that the unlimited code sharing and complete elimination of system protection wasn't warranted. Maybe we would have gotten that by holding out. The jobs though? They were gone.

 

[dfw gen]

Did you think the judge was going to leave that in if we went to abrogation? There was no way for AA to get either of their outsourcing goals without dropping or modifying system protection. AA was getting rid of system protection no matter what.

you are still an embarrassment to anything union.

 

[MCI transplant]

Yes it is the TWU's job and they did try. Have you read the reports on court. The judge thought the TWU membership did a great job of cutting costs but that had no bearing on whether or not the contract could be abrogated. The only provision the pilots got was that the unlimited code sharing and complete elimination of system protection wasn't warranted. Maybe we would have gotten that by holding out. The jobs though? They were gone.

So maybe you can explain why the Judge singled out the Pilots for special treatment? Could it be because they have a superior Union?

 

[1AA]

So maybe you can explain why the Judge singled out the Pilots for special treatment? Could it be because they have a superior Union?

OUCH! Non AFL-CIO class and craft union perhaps.....
AMFA seems to fit the same profile.
January 2014 we should get things going again.

 

[lineguy43]

Hey O' spin I just got another bump to 51.88 an hr and I am non union. I get this wage thanks to AMFA at NWA raising the bar and no other reason.. I am sure you make big bucks as a union stooge more than any mechanic you represent. Its a travesty for licensed A@P's making less than dispatchers who have a ticket that takes 5 weeks to get. It is no secret we got a 13 dollar an hr jump in pay and more than double retirement when we broke away from the industrial union. You can keep the overhaul guys scared to keep you in charge but once they hit the street you guys are history its only a matter of time.

 

[Overspeed]

Hey O' spin I just got another bump to 51.88 an hr and I am non union. I get this wage thanks to AMFA at NWA raising the bar and no other reason.. I am sure you make big bucks as a union stooge more than any mechanic you represent. Its a travesty for licensed A@P's making less than dispatchers who have a ticket that takes 5 weeks to get. It is no secret we got a 13 dollar an hr jump in pay and more than double retirement when we broke away from the industrial union. You can keep the overhaul guys scared to keep you in charge but once they hit the street you guys are history its only a matter of time.

Ok

 

[lineguy43]

Ok

Glad you agree

 

[swamt]

35% of direct labor, material, and OSS spend. I did read the language which is very close to actual spend. Have you looked at the percentage of OSS spend lately? Through three quarters even under the new CBA the TWU keeps more maintenance spend in-house (work) than any other airline. AMFA at SWA is only getting beaten on outsourcing by non-union jetBlue. Great scope language AMFA at AS and SWA, you are helping non-union low wage AMTs get jobs truly trickle down unionism. And as long as you keep lying I will keep posting. HA HA

American 25.72% Delta 41.26% United 47.33% US Airways 56.49% Southwest 60.79% jetBlue 66.35% Alaska 52.13%

Your numbers and percentiles are completely wrong. Carry on...