New TWU president talks tough against DOJ lawsuit, American Airlines layoffs, industry outsourcing

[Overspeed]

Wow when the "perfect storm" hit at NWA, AMFA sucked, when it happens at AA, we need to work together? Really? We can fix the Union Structure that you admit is flawed by obtaining the AMFA constitution. You are so ate up with the TWU, against change, and spew such a two faced double standard that you make me sick. You and the others claimed AMFA traded jobs for wages. Now you use higher wage and less jobs as your platform to continue supporting the TWU....WOW

AMFA does suck. They could have worked to keep jobs and stay on the property instead they went on an ill-advised strike even after they knew replacements were being trained and that the government was leaning towards the company on the issue. Perfect storm? Yes but you left out incompetent leadership. They didn't win the force majeure case when their membership was slashed by half, failed to believe the company was better prepared for a strike, add in they never believed NWA would file BK, and also that the government would not step in with a PEB to save them. The result was a fifteen month strike that ended with almost all members losing their jobs to scabs and management replacements. Epic fail!

The TWU did accept lower wages for jobs however temporarily. You didn't read the part about your wages going to industry average in the third year of a BK CBA as opposed to the "killer" AMFA BK CBAs that did nothing to restore wages back to industry standard at UA and NWA. Well NWA was a complete failure. So as I said AMFA sucks which is why DL wanted nothing to do with them and UAL kicked them out for the IBT which is the most anti-craft of any of the unions.

 

[Vortilon]

We all know what we have that is better, more total jobs. As for right now we paid for that in a lower wage scale. What I can say in respect to knowing that the pay issue will improve significantly is the wage adjustment clause that will kick in within 24 months. That being said we will be (based on the current contracts of the UA and DL) be at about $38 for all AMTs overhaul and line. We still have to close the gap on SK, VC, Holidays, and OT which are HUGE issues for all of us. I would hope that with the strong possibility of the US/AA merger that many of these items would be brought up to an industry standard contract on those key issues. So when we get the wage adjustment in 24 months and most likely a merged CBA with the IAM and TWU we stand a very good chance of having significantly more jobs than any of those airlines you mentioned and industry standard CBA on almost all of the issues that are important to all of us.

Now to address the elephant in the room, TUL or overhaul in general getting smaller. Lets look at what is happening here. We have the perfect storm in many aspects but not in the way many believe. New aircraft will drive down maintenance needs overhaul because the technology is simply better than it was when the 757, 767, and MD80 were built and the planes are more reliable. There will and should be a shift due to the A319/A321 and 787 arrivals. The Airbus if maintenance is handled like at US will be a phased LC for the first five to six years. That means no 18/24 month LC's in TUL but they will be done on the line like US does in places like PHX in conjunction with the BC. I can see that jobs will be there but they will be shifting from the traditional overhaul environment to the line. Many airlines do this now.

So now that we know that we have the wage adjustment kicking in about 24 months, a merged CBA coming in around the same time if the merger is approved (most likely) that should bring us to industry standard work rules (OT, VC, SK, HOL), new aircraft driving down total AMT work slightly, and that overhaul work isn't going away but shifting to the line as far as LC is concerned what does that mean? In my opinion it means the new M&R work force will be primarily in the higher cost stations on the line and the votes and strength to get an industry leading contract will be there by the time we open contract negotiations in 36 months.

Now is the time to work on how our union is structured. Who and how will our negotiating team work? How will the TWU/IAM Association work if it is approved by our membership? The discussion of structure and how our union functions is now. Local 514, 567, and 591 should start having those discussions now.

The AMTs at AA will move on with AMFA! The TWU has had more chances than should be allowed to get it right. Game over!
None of us are getting any younger, I say piss on the TWU, and their commie agenda.

 

[blue collar]

AMFA does suck. They could have worked to keep jobs and stay on the property instead they went on an ill-advised strike even after they knew replacements were being trained and that the government was leaning towards the company on the issue. Perfect storm? Yes but you left out incompetent leadership. They didn't win the force majeure case when their membership was slashed by half, failed to believe the company was better prepared for a strike, add in they never believed NWA would file BK, and also that the government would not step in with a PEB to save them. The result was a fifteen month strike that ended with almost all members losing their jobs to scabs and management replacements. Epic fail!

The TWU did accept lower wages for jobs however temporarily. You didn't read the part about your wages going to industry average in the third year of a BK CBA as opposed to the "killer" AMFA BK CBAs that did nothing to restore wages back to industry standard at UA and NWA. Well NWA was a complete failure. So as I said AMFA sucks which is why DL wanted nothing to do with them and UAL kicked them out for the IBT which is the most anti-craft of any of the unions.

You say you gave wages for jobs.... For now. What happens when new ac are brought online? That's MORE jobs out the door. Hey, at least in a few years you can have 'industry average'. Way to go. Quit trying to constantly find fault with AMFA, and maybe talk to the guys pushing it; you might find common ground?

 

[Thomas Paine]

We all know that what we have is better more total jobs.

So I guess Walmart is right their workers don't need a union because Walmart has more workers than any other retail store. Bottom line AA got everything they wanted. More than a non union airline would dare ask for.

 

[TWU informer]

AMFA does suck. They could have worked to keep jobs and stay on the property instead they went on an ill-advised strike even after they knew replacements were being trained and that the government was leaning towards the company on the issue. Perfect storm? Yes but you left out incompetent leadership. They didn't win the force majeure case when their membership was slashed by half, failed to believe the company was better prepared for a strike, add in they never believed NWA would file BK, and also that the government would not step in with a PEB to save them. The result was a fifteen month strike that ended with almost all members losing their jobs to scabs and management replacements. Epic fail!

The TWU did accept lower wages for jobs however temporarily. You didn't read the part about your wages going to industry average in the third year of a BK CBA as opposed to the "killer" AMFA BK CBAs that did nothing to restore wages back to industry standard at UA and NWA. Well NWA was a complete failure. So as I said AMFA sucks which is why DL wanted nothing to do with them and UAL kicked them out for the IBT which is the most anti-craft of any of the unions.

There was no work together option at NWA, after the first strike/PEB management was hell bent on busting the union. And you and other industrial union stooges sit on backs and watch it take place because name of union means more than a fellow AMT.

And your temporary wage cuts for jobs goes back as far as 1983 B-scale, then 1995 SRP, then 2003 BK threat, and so how temporary is that? And truth is the jobs are going out the door every week at a record pace.

 

[Overspeed]

So I guess Walmart is right their workers don't need a union because Walmart has more workers than any other retail store. Bottom line AA got everything they wanted. More than a non union airline would dare ask for.

AA wanted to outsource almost all airframe overhaul so no they didn't get all they wanted. The Walmart reference would make sense at PLane Techs, AAR, TIMCO, and ATS. The majority of their AMT work force makes way less than AA and are part time. But keep pushing for AMFA and you will join them like all the former UA AMTs that now work at AAR IND or all the former NWA AMTs AAR MSP.

 

[Overspeed]

There was no work together option at NWA, after the first strike/PEB management was hell bent on busting the union. And you and other industrial union stooges sit on backs and watch it take place because name of union means more than a fellow AMT.

And your temporary wage cuts for jobs goes back as far as 1983 B-scale, then 1995 SRP, then 2003 BK threat, and so how temporary is that? And truth is the jobs are going out the door every week at a record pace.

B scale went away in 1992. Companies like DL and CO had mechanic helpers working at their overhaul bases long before the SRP came in to existence. The 2003 BK "threat" turned out to be real in 2012 didn't it. We got nine years of pension credit compared to none at NWA, UA, US, and DL. We also didn't get a 25% pay cut plus 90% of our jobs like NWA in 2004. We didn't lose all but three lines of our airframe overhaul like UA plus loss of pension and pay cuts totaling two pay cuts with one being without a vote.

Your ability to ignore facts is amazing.

 

[Overspeed]

There was no work together option at NWA, after the first strike/PEB management was hell bent on busting the union. And you and other industrial union stooges sit on backs and watch it take place because name of union means more than a fellow AMT.

And your temporary wage cuts for jobs goes back as far as 1983 B-scale, then 1995 SRP, then 2003 BK threat, and so how temporary is that? And truth is the jobs are going out the door every week at a record pace.

Ever heard of PFAA? The F/A union at NWA at the time of the strike. That independent union was created by AMFA scam artists advisors the McCormick group to create a F/A craft union. They didn't back AMFA either.

 

[1AA]

Your not convincing anybody here on this board. You sure can not convince anyone out on the floor or the line stations. I can tell you that the guys I talk to are just not interested anymore anything the TWU has to offer. The Association issue will be voted down unless the TWU decides to implement it without member ratification. Everyone agrees that the TWU has to go. The SCAM IBT drive just made us look like idiots. More koolaid drinkers. NOW is the time to change. AMFA is the only change.
No one can argue in a reasonable manner that this the only way to go after all the years of lies and scams the TWU made. Keep posting your crap because the more you post the more we laugh at you. Post what you want the TWU is done. The end of the road is near.

 

[swamt]

There was no work together option at NWA, after the first strike/PEB management was hell bent on busting the union. And you and other industrial union stooges sit on backs and watch it take place because name of union means more than a fellow AMT.

And your temporary wage cuts for jobs goes back as far as 1983 B-scale, then 1995 SRP, then 2003 BK threat, and so how temporary is that? And truth is the jobs are going out the door every week at a record pace.

AA wanted to outsource almost all airframe overhaul so no they didn't get all they wanted. The Walmart reference would make sense at PLane Techs, AAR, TIMCO, and ATS. The majority of their AMT work force makes way less than AA and are part time. But keep pushing for AMFA and you will join them like all the former UA AMTs that now work at AAR IND or all the former NWA AMTs AAR MSP.

The continued comparisons of AMFA at NWA are getting old. It seems to be the only thing that overspeed lingers on. When in fact we all know that the men and women of AMFA at NWA commended for what they stood up for, which was the majority of their membership and the AMT industry as a whole. They just did not cave like the TWU has done since 1983, which is 30 years of concessions and give backs. NO OTHER union has this long of a record of concessions and agreements with a company for so many job losses and turmoil brought onto their membership-PERIOD!!!----------------------------------------------------------------- Overspeed also fails to mention the fact that the job losses will continue (per the TWU agreed upon contract) into and beyond 2014, with more job and headcount losses starting in Jan. and continuing thru 2017 with more than 65% reduction of membership as a total.------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now overspeed wants to compare AA wages to 3rd party FBO's as that is the only wages they are above, pretty sad if you ask me. He also mentions that the TWU will get "industry average" wages and bennies in about 2-3 years and after the SCBA between US and AA IF they merge at all. Getting back to just industry average after 3 years is still bottom of the barrel as AA was well above industry average prior to all the concessions, give backs and job losses starting decades ago. They will not get all that he claims on the first contract after BK with or without the merger with US. Now let's all say (with the TWU still representing them) they get their raises (but no bennies are guaranteed) by this time UAL will have a better contract, which will once again put the AA guys below industry average once again. It is truly sad to sit here and watch an international union member of the TWU, support the TWU after all the concessions, rif's, job losses, give backs, and agreed to back door deals with the AA company and then "SELL" it all to the membership as a good thing--PATHETIC!!! I would rather go thru what the NWA guys endured than be a TWU member at AA for the last 3 decades, at least they are all doing much, much better now days, unless of course, there are some at AA with the TWU. I really do hope you guys get AMFA in by next year some time, you guys really do need to fire the TWU. The new TWU will make all kinds of promises in order to keep the membership dangling along, and the company will do ANYTHING in their power to help the TWU remain on the property because they do not want to loose the easy caving TWU to another union (AMFA) that would not continuously agree to everything the company wants every time...

 

[swamt]

B scale went away in 1992. Companies like DL and CO had mechanic helpers working at their overhaul bases long before the SRP came in to existence. The 2003 BK "threat" turned out to be real in 2012 didn't it. We got nine years of pension credit compared to none at NWA, UA, US, and DL. We also didn't get a 25% pay cut plus 90% of our jobs like NWA in 2004. We didn't lose all but three lines of our airframe overhaul like UA plus loss of pension and pay cuts totaling two pay cuts with one being without a vote.

Your ability to ignore facts is amazing.

So, again to be clear; The TWU caved in 2003, outside of BK, to the tune of job losses, wage concessions, rif's and other give backs that the TWU agreed to with the company and then sold it to the membership as "this is the best we can do". then, while still working under those concessions, in 2012 the TWU once again agrees to more and more concessions while in BK. With no snap back clauses tied to either agreement. And your wrong again, not only did the TWU agree to 17.5 hard wage concessions, when you add in all the other pay concessions and bennies they gave up it was well over 25% reduction, then fast forward to 2012 with even more concessions on top of the 2003 concessions plus all the job losses and outsourcing. Your pathetic, and now your trying to convince your membership that this was all a "good thing" from an international position. If you were AMFA and all this occurred the membership would have fired you a long time ago, along with ALL the international boys who were all apart of these agreements and selling these POS to the membership. Completely pathetic representation. Nuff-said...

 

[Overspeed]

So, again to be clear; The TWU caved in 2003, outside of BK, to the tune of job losses, wage concessions, rif's and other give backs that the TWU agreed to with the company and then sold it to the membership as "this is the best we can do". then, while still working under those concessions, in 2012 the TWU once again agrees to more and more concessions while in BK. With no snap back clauses tied to either agreement. And your wrong again, not only did the TWU agree to 17.5 hard wage concessions, when you add in all the other pay concessions and bennies they gave up it was well over 25% reduction, then fast forward to 2012 with even more concessions on top of the 2003 concessions plus all the job losses and outsourcing. Your pathetic, and now your trying to convince your membership that this was all a "good thing" from an international position. If you were AMFA and all this occurred the membership would have fired you a long time ago, along with ALL the international boys who were all apart of these agreements and selling these POS to the membership. Completely pathetic representation. Nuff-said...

2003 concessions were there lesser of two evils. BK was the most evil as we all know the corporations win every time in BK court. So just to be clear, an AMFA win is telling the company to shove it knowing full well they will lose thousands of jobs, pay, and the pension and weakness is keeping most of the jobs albeit with the pay cuts but keeping the pension credit rolling.

Yep, AMFA sucks. That's what thousands of UA M&R members found out and ran away from AMFA as fast as they could before they suffered the same fate as NWA.

Just to be crystal clear

 

[Overspeed]

Your not convincing anybody here on this board. You sure can not convince anyone out on the floor or the line stations. I can tell you that the guys I talk to are just not interested anymore anything the TWU has to offer. The Association issue will be voted down unless the TWU decides to implement it without member ratification. Everyone agrees that the TWU has to go. The SCAM IBT drive just made us look like idiots. More koolaid drinkers. NOW is the time to change. AMFA is the only change.
No one can argue in a reasonable manner that this the only way to go after all the years of lies and scams the TWU made. Keep posting your crap because the more you post the more we laugh at you. Post what you want the TWU is done. The end of the road is near.

Vote AMFA and you will be left with nothing but change...in your pocket

 

[Overspeed]

The continued comparisons of AMFA at NWA are getting old. It seems to be the only thing that overspeed lingers on. When in fact we all know that the men and women of AMFA at NWA commended for what they stood up for, which was the majority of their membership and the AMT industry as a whole. They just did not cave like the TWU has done since 1983, which is 30 years of concessions and give backs. NO OTHER union has this long of a record of concessions and agreements with a company for so many job losses and turmoil brought onto their membership-PERIOD!!!----------------------------------------------------------------- Overspeed also fails to mention the fact that the job losses will continue (per the TWU agreed upon contract) into and beyond 2014, with more job and headcount losses starting in Jan. and continuing thru 2017 with more than 65% reduction of membership as a total.------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now overspeed wants to compare AA wages to 3rd party FBO's as that is the only wages they are above, pretty sad if you ask me. He also mentions that the TWU will get "industry average" wages and bennies in about 2-3 years and after the SCBA between US and AA IF they merge at all. Getting back to just industry average after 3 years is still bottom of the barrel as AA was well above industry average prior to all the concessions, give backs and job losses starting decades ago. They will not get all that he claims on the first contract after BK with or without the merger with US. Now let's all say (with the TWU still representing them) they get their raises (but no bennies are guaranteed) by this time UAL will have a better contract, which will once again put the AA guys below industry average once again. It is truly sad to sit here and watch an international union member of the TWU, support the TWU after all the concessions, rif's, job losses, give backs, and agreed to back door deals with the AA company and then "SELL" it all to the membership as a good thing--PATHETIC!!! I would rather go thru what the NWA guys endured than be a TWU member at AA for the last 3 decades, at least they are all doing much, much better now days, unless of course, there are some at AA with the TWU. I really do hope you guys get AMFA in by next year some time, you guys really do need to fire the TWU. The new TWU will make all kinds of promises in order to keep the membership dangling along, and the company will do ANYTHING in their power to help the TWU remain on the property because they do not want to loose the easy caving TWU to another union (AMFA) that would not continuously agree to everything the company wants every time...

Let's compare the AMFA wages of the SWA engine overhaul shop AMTs to...wait...AMFA doesn't represent and engine overhaul AMTs so that would be comparing SWA engine overhaul AMT pay at $0 to the MRO.

 

[TWU informer]

2003 concessions were there lesser of two evils. BK was the most evil as we all know the corporations win every time in BK court. So just to be clear, an AMFA win is telling the company to shove it knowing full well they will lose thousands of jobs, pay, and the pension and weakness is keeping most of the jobs albeit with the pay cuts but keeping the pension credit rolling.

Yep, AMFA sucks. That's what thousands of UA M&R members found out and ran away from AMFA as fast as they could before they suffered the same fate as NWA.

Just to be crystal clear

We/You gave away the half the farm to prevent BK, then gave the other half away once BK happened. Nice prevention and planning.