New line maint stations opening

[WorldTraveler]

WHAT?

staying in DTW on the payroll because others above you chose to leave for HNL and SAN is a layoff for those who got left behind?

perhaps if you want to gamble that 40 mechanics above you won't move (and they don't) and you have no desire to move to any other city, then yes, I suppose a layoff will occur - but DL is doing everything possible except showing up at your house with an engraved invitation.

Get back with me and let me know how many DTW mechanics actually get pushed out the door but I'm betting that the number will be far less than a handful and maybe none at all.

you can also tell me how many people were really laid off and chose not to accept one of the positions offered to them in other cities...

And the whole resistance to moving is particularly striking from a couple of people who have made VOLUNTARY moves in the industry in order to advance their own careers.

And those that choose not to move will get severance, unemployment etc.

And again tell me how this is any different from what other airlines do other than telling you that you can bump anyone below you on a systemwide basis (which might well be less than the list DL provided).

 

[700UW]

and yet the number of layoffs of FT DL people since the merger is ZERO

So you are saying when they closed and/or reduced ANC, CVG, DTW, MEM, MSP and other stations that not one Delta employee was laid off and hit the streets?
 
Your mouth is writing checks your body cant cash.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I said those employees were all offered positions elsewhere on the system.

I do not know who chose to accept DL's transfer - but I absolutely know that DL has offered to protect at least every FT job (not sure about PT) with the option to transfer to another station.

If you are so certain that employees have been laid off, you should be able to tell us how many.

I am far more certain that DL offered protection employment and priority bidding than you are that anyone really left DL.

Further, you have yet to show how what DL is doing here is worse than what other airlines offer. UA and WN have both announced significant reductions in staffing and they have protected their people.

What I'm sure has not happened is that the bottom employees in a northern city get preferential bidding into a city like SAN or HNL or even BNA or CHS. If you leave junior people to push out only what they can bid by their own seniority, they won't fare as well as the list of cities that DL is offering.

 

[700UW]

No you didnt, I quoted your words exactly from your post.

and yet the number of layoffs of FT DL people since the merger is ZERO

 

[TDR1502C]

 

of course the downside for maintenance is that the 777 is a very reliable airplane

 

What do you mean by this? The 777 needs less Pre Departure Checks than other airplanes? The 777 needs less Service Checks than other airplanes? The slats and flaps need less grease? The heavy and time checks are spread out longer?

How does the Delta fleet rank for reliability? Can you show that to prove your statement?

 

[metopower]

Easy ..just check the dot completion numbers

 

[TDR1502C]

How do those numbers relate to how many manhours are needed to support the aircraft? A 777 flying to a station requires more maintenance support than a MD-88 for example.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm not saying that 777s don't require maintenance just that the reliability of the 777 means that carriers that use it have a much better chance of PLANNING that maintenance rather than sitting at the gate waiting for maintenance to show up to fix the plane and then head off for a 14-16 hour flight.

There are ample statistics that show the reliability of the 777.

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

I'm not saying that 777s don't require maintenance just that the reliability of the 777 means that carriers that use it have a much better chance of PLANNING that maintenance rather than sitting at the gate waiting for maintenance to show up to fix the plane and then head off for a 14-16 hour flight.

There are ample statistics that show the reliability of the 777.

 
I wonder what the reliability stats are for the 744s lately, now that they've become hangar queens. It will be interesting to see what happens to DL's transpac revenue in the future as the competitive landscape changes as other network carriers add their 777-300s and 787s against the venerable 744s

 

[WorldTraveler]

you do know that DL's 744s have a lower CASM than their 777s?

IN fact DL's 744s have a lower CASM than most other large widebodies.

Probably has to do with the fact that the 744s are paid for... ownership costs of aircraft are precisely why DL sees value in keeping older aircraft like the 744 in service instead of buying expensive 777-300s at the same time everyone else wants them - and why the economics of the A330-300 make more sense than other aircraft.

Hangar queens? Got stats to back that up?

The cost data is sourced from DOT data and is reported a couple times per year in Aviation Daily.

 

[700UW]

Sure about that?
 
A quick N# Search shows otherwise
 
A/C 661US 744 owned by US Bank Trust NA
 
A/C 662US 744 owned by Wells Fargo Bank Northwest NA Trustee
 
A/C 663US 744 owned by US Bank Trust NA
 
A/C 664US 744 owned by US Bank Trust NA

A/C 665US 744 owned by US Bank Trust NA
 
A/C 666US 744 owned by US Bank Trust NA
 
A/C 669US 744 owned by Wells Fargo Bank Northwest NA Trustee
 
A/C 671US 744 owned by Wells Fargo Bank Northwest NA Trustee
 
A/C 672US 744 owned by Wells Fargo Bank Northwest NA Trustee
 
A/C 673US 744 owned by Wells Fargo Bank Northwest NA Trustee
 
A/C 674US 744 owned by Wells Fargo Bank Northwest NA Trustee
 
A/C 676NW 744 owned by Wells Fargo Bank Northwest NA Trustee
 
 
So out of the 16 Active DL 744s only owns 4.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.
Source FAA N# Database.

 

[WorldTraveler]

yes, I am.

you do realize that the term ownership costs include lease payments and that NW renegotiated dramatically lower lease payments on those aircraft in BK? The aircraft are paid for whether they are owned by DL or a bank. You do realize that NW had some of the oldest build 744s out there, don't you?

Go read Aviation Daily. You'll find a lot of real data in it.

But it isn't free and can't be googled because good data costs money.

 

[700UW]

you do know that DL's 744s have a lower CASM than their 777s?

IN fact DL's 744s have a lower CASM than most other large widebodies.

Probably has to do with the fact that the 744s are paid for... ownership costs of aircraft are precisely why DL sees value in keeping older aircraft like the 744 in service instead of buying expensive 777-300s at the same time everyone else wants them - and why the economics of the A330-300 make more sense than other aircraft.

Hangar queens? Got stats to back that up?

The cost data is sourced from DOT data and is reported a couple times per year in Aviation Daily.

 
 

Sure about that?
 
A quick N# Search shows otherwise
 
A/C 661US 744 owned by US Bank Trust NA
 
A/C 662US 744 owned by Wells Fargo Bank Northwest NA Trustee
 
A/C 663US 744 owned by US Bank Trust NA
 
A/C 664US 744 owned by US Bank Trust NA

A/C 665US 744 owned by US Bank Trust NA
 
A/C 666US 744 owned by US Bank Trust NA
 
A/C 669US 744 owned by Wells Fargo Bank Northwest NA Trustee
 
A/C 671US 744 owned by Wells Fargo Bank Northwest NA Trustee
 
A/C 672US 744 owned by Wells Fargo Bank Northwest NA Trustee
 
A/C 673US 744 owned by Wells Fargo Bank Northwest NA Trustee
 
A/C 674US 744 owned by Wells Fargo Bank Northwest NA Trustee
 
A/C 676NW 744 owned by Wells Fargo Bank Northwest NA Trustee
 
 
So out of the 16 Active DL 744s only owns 4.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.
Source FAA N# Database.

 
 

yes, I am.

you do realize that the term ownership costs include lease payments and that NW renegotiated dramatically lower lease payments on those aircraft in BK? The aircraft are paid for whether they are owned by DL or a bank. You do realize that NW had some of the oldest build 744s out there, don't you?

Go read Aviation Daily. You'll find a lot of real data in it.

But it isn't free and can't be googled because good data costs money.

They are not owned, the majority are leased so they are being paid for monthly, not cost free ownership. So if they are leased they pay for them and dont own them.
 
Proved you wrong once again,
 
Dont let the facts get in your way. LOL

 

[WorldTraveler]

and because they are paid for by the bank, NW was able to get much lower lease payments.
Is it too hard for you to grasp that a 20 year old aircraft costs less regardless of who holds the title?

You proved nothing other than that you try way too hard to prove people wrong and end up making yourself look, well, like a/n ..............

 

[700UW]

You said they are owned by Delta, thats not the case, they are leased, so they are not paid for as when you lease something you have to pay for it.
 
There are four that are owned by Delta, the rest are not.