New information on the TWA Flt. 800 Coverup:

[delldude]

 
So the truth is out.  That thank you for your service post was just you jumping on the bandwagon.  In reality you think were all just a bunch of mindless baby killers.  Thanks.

 
Never said anything like that and you know it.
 
What I said is true and you know it.

 

[delldude]

 
Yes I have.  Did you bother to look into the background of Wayne Madsen before you posted something he said to support your view?

 
Ex Navy....?
His bio from Wiki just about fits with half the stuff that has been revealed by Snowden and history over the years.
Al that stuff Navy jamming down in SA.....hell we got caught playing that in the USS Liberty by Israel and NK I think.
He sounds like an intel spook gone rogue to me.
I'll give you the fact that he seems on the forefront of some CT. But again, his background in post military service seems to fill the bill in some of those venues.
 

 
 Is your next claim going to be that the USN invented a time machine and took this system back to 1996?

 
So what of development and procurement?
From what Wiki claims, Tomahawk was intro'd in the 70's and in service by the mid eighties. That's easily 13 yrs and I bet it was a lot longer. Its only been 19 years since(96') then. If a tragic mishap, such as what appears to have happened with 800, did in fact go down, would result in all kinds of investigations into the hows and whys of what happened causing years of delay to the program and all kinds of safety concerns whenever the program was reinstated. You know that too.
 
Like I said before, dispute the evidence that shot the NTSB findings out the window. Conduct another thorough independent investigation and quite possibly people involved would be inclined to talk with immunity and so on.

 

[MCI transplant]

 
You posted a link saying that a USN submarine shot it down.  Do you believe that or not?

I believe it's more than a good possibility. The article provides too many details to be just blown off!

 

[Ms Tree]

And it ignores so many other things that it makes it nearly impossible to take seriously.

Let's start with an easy one. How did "they" (who ever they are) convince the GOP to go along with the cover up?

 

[delldude]

Who says they were/are a party to anything?

 

[777 fixer]

 
 
 
What I said is true and you know it.

 
What exactly is that you said is true?

 

[ChockJockey]

Who says they were/are a party to anything?

 
If they weren't a party to it that would imply that they had no knowledge of any coverup, and in a capitol crammed with highly-connected people it's highly unlikely that they wouldn't have gotten even a whiff of it from any contacts in the military or its contractors.  Had there been any indication of one the GOP would have exploited it for all they could.

 

[777 fixer]

 
Ex Navy....?
His bio from Wiki just about fits with half the stuff that has been revealed by Snowden and history over the years.
Al that stuff Navy jamming down in SA.....hell we got caught playing that in the USS Liberty by Israel and NK I think.
He sounds like an intel spook gone rogue to me.
I'll give you the fact that he seems on the forefront of some CT. But again, his background in post military service seems to fill the bill in some of those venues.
.

 
You left out the part where he claims Mossad, Saudi Intelligence, GWB, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Rudy Giuliani planned the 9-11 attacks.  Obama had a homosexual encounter with Bill Frist.  The USS Cole was hit by a cruise missile launched by an Israeli submarine.  I could go on but I think it's rather clear the guy is a loon.  Quite frankly I don't know why anyone would use him to support their argument since doing so would only weaken it 
 

 
.So what of development and procurement?
From what Wiki claims, Tomahawk was intro'd in the 70's and in service by the mid eighties. That's easily 13 yrs and I bet it was a lot longer. Its only been 19 years since(96') then. If a tragic mishap, such as what appears to have happened with 800, did in fact go down, would result in all kinds of investigations into the hows and whys of what happened causing years of delay to the program and all kinds of safety concerns whenever the program was reinstated. You know that too.
 
 

 
Here's what I know.  When the Navy has a new weapons system they test it at PMTC.  Not in one of the most heavily congested air spaces in the world.  Of course that's assuming the system even existed back then.  Which it seems to have not.

 

[777 fixer]

I believe it's more than a good possibility. The article provides too many details to be just blown off!

 
The Seawolf's missile was to have struck a drone reportedly being towed by a Navy P-3 Orion maritime surveillance aircraft. 
 
You were in the navy, tell me what's wrong with that statement.

 

[delldude]

 
The Seawolf's missile was to have struck a drone reportedly being towed by a Navy P-3 Orion maritime surveillance aircraft. 
 
You were in the navy, tell me what's wrong with that statement.

 
Latest greatest is the Orion was firing the target missile.
 
It existed back then, had to at least in development. You had subroc and tomahawk, the next thing is AA submerged capability.
Hell, they're working on hypervelocity torpedos exploiting cavitation now.
 
 
This one claims it was in development in the 80's:
http://www.g2mil.com/subam.htm

 
Since modern submarines can fire cruise missiles while underwater, it is amazing that Sub-Surface-to-Air Missiles (SUBSAMs) have not been developed, although rumors persist that they secretly exist. The idea was tested in the 1980's using SEACAT missiles.

 
Check this out:
 

In June 1971, McDonnell Douglas was awarded the prime contract for Harpoon, and the first test missile flew in October 1972. By that time it had already been decided to develop air-launched, ship-launched and submarine-launched Harpoon variants, designated AGM-84A, RGM-84A and UGM-84A, respectively.
 
The UGM-84A became operational on attack submarines in 1981.
 
RGM-84A
 
For launch from submarines, the UGM-84A is enclosed in a capsule, which glides to the surface after launch from the torpedo tube. When the capsule breaks the surface, the front and end caps are ejected and the missile fired. The digital MK 117 Fire Control System has full support for Harpoon integrated.
The UGM-84B is a UGM-84A variant for use by the Royal Navy, and flies at a slightly lower cruising altitude than the -84A. The UGM-84B is called GWS-60 by the Royal Navy, and the UTM-84B is the corresponding training version. Interestingly, the designations AGM-84B, RGM-84B, ATM-84B and RTM-84B were also formally allocated, although no air- or ship-launched -84B missiles were ever built.
The next U.S. Navy variant was the Harpoon Block 1B, designated AGM-84C, RGM-84C and UGM-84C. The Block 1B missiles were first delivered to the Navy in June 1982. The xGM-84C flies at the same lower cruise altitude as the UGM-84B, and does no pop-up manoeuver, flying a sea-skimming attack profile instead. The Block 1B training missiles are the ATM-84C, RTM-84C and UTM-84C.
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-84.html

 
 
How about that time machine?
 

 
Taiwan Acquires Submarine-Launched Anti-Ship Missiles

Taiwan announced this week that the U.S. has begun delivering UGM-84L sub-launched Harpoon Block II missiles.
http://thediplomat.com/2013/12/taiwan-acquires-submarine-launched-anti-ship-missiles/

 

[delldude]

Undersea Warfare Test range right off Long Island.
 
http://aftteis.com/Portals/4/aftteis/images/AFTT_Study_Area.jpg

 

[MCI transplant]

 
The Seawolf's missile was to have struck a drone reportedly being towed by a Navy P-3 Orion maritime surveillance aircraft. 
 
You were in the navy, tell me what's wrong with that statement.

Yes fixer, I know what's wrong with it.------ I was in a Utility Squadron in Atsugi, Japan for two years. I also know that reporters, and those not familiar with Navel aviation, or aviation in general,  get it wrong on occasion. You see it reported in the news all the time. So what's your point? --------Liston fixer, talking to my fellow Inspectors who were there, tell me, they saw parts come up from the Ocean floor, that never made it to the hanger. And that, so called, men in black, were pocking around on the hanger floor in the middle of the night. Leads me to suspect, something is going on!!!  Now I don't  think these Inspectors would have any reason to tell me stories out of school. And I have known them, and worked with them, for years, so I tend to believe what they were telling me! Weather Flt. 800 was downed by our Navy, or Ben Loden, doesn't change the fact that I believe there was a coverup.

 

[Ms Tree]

 
If they weren't a party to it that would imply that they had no knowledge of any coverup, and in a capitol crammed with highly-connected people it's highly unlikely that they wouldn't have gotten even a whiff of it from any contacts in the military or its contractors.  Had there been any indication of one the GOP would have exploited it for all they could.

There are senior members of Congress who could be argued have more power than the POTUS in regards to their connections and influence.  To think that the Clintons were trying to cover something up in the military and non of the officers in the Navy said anything to the members of Congress is ludicrous.
 
My next question would be how in the world to you keep all the hundreds if not thousands of people who would have known something about a Clinton cover up quiet?
 
Still waiting to see an answer as to why the GOP would have gone along with this.

 

[MCI transplant]

And my question would be, Why did the FBI.,CIA, U.S Navy, get involved with this in the first place, when it was totally the NTSB that had justification? The FBI should have only been brought in after it was proven to be a criminal offense? The CIA, should not have been involved at all, but they were! The U.S. Navy?------- My,My, My,! Just happened to be in the area!

 

[MCI transplant]

There are senior members of Congress who could be argued have more power than the POTUS in regards to their connections and influence.  To think that the Clintons were trying to cover something up in the military and non of the officers in the Navy said anything to the members of Congress is ludicrous.
 
My next question would be how in the world to you keep all the hundreds if not thousands of people who would have known something about a Clinton cover up quiet?
 
Still waiting to see an answer as to why the GOP would have gone along with this.

Tree, you don't know what the political climate was at he point in time! The words "national security" stamped all over things meant a lot back then! Even to the GOP!!!