New Ceo Says Us Airways Can Grow

[USA320Pilot]

Clue:

Clue said: "The ATSB will not allow a "prepackaged" bankrupty that is specifically designed to "shed gates" or "abrogate union contracts." S1113 exists for a reason, and the board and the courts are not going to allow US to pull a Lorenzo. It's simply not going to happen. So long as there is enough equity available in a Chapter 7 filing to pay the ATSB and Bronner, this is the only bankruptcy filing that U will see until the balance of the ATSB loan is repaid."

USA320Pilot asks: Clue, how do you know your comment above to be valid? Can the ATSB loan guarantee covenants be changed?

What I said above regarding a pre-packaged bankruptcy was told to me by an ALPA official. Will it occur? I do not know. Is it being discussed? Yes sir yee.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[PITbull]

USA320,

Your implying in your above post that the ATSB can continue to keep renegotiating the terms. U just renegotiated. What are you saying, that two months later, they'll go back and renegotiate for a prepackaged BK? And what? Get ATSB approval for this.

That's insane! If U goes back again to the ATSB, they would be smart to just force a liquidation to protect the taxpayers. I don't think the government is in the business of protecting defunct companies to keep screwing vendors and creditors, employees and taxpayers for the sake of protecting Bronner's share on investment. If that ALPA official or MEC member told you this, it was to scare the Begeezus out of you. And obviously, he went to the right person.

The rest of us already understand this and all ready had our history lesson from BK #1.

 

[USA320Pilot]

PITBull:

I’m not scared and I simply reported what I was told. No more, no less. In fact, for the first time in a long time I am at peace if US Airways fails -- it's only a job.

David Bronner told all of the unions last week the restructuring will occur "with or without employees." I do not know about you, but I believe the chairman.

PITBull, it's not insane, it's being discussed.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[BoeingBoy]

Just a little note....

I believe the ATSB owns warrents entitling them to purchase 10% of U stock - they do not OWN 10% of the stock. Having just gotten back from a 4-day trip I don't feel up to digging thru the loan document, but I believe the warrents allow them to purchase the stock at somewhere between $7.30 & $7.50 per share.

Jim

 

[USA320Pilot]

BoeingBoy:

You may be correct.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[ClueByFour]

USA320Pilot asks: Clue, how do you know your comment above to be valid? Can the ATSB loan guarantee covenants be changed?

What I said above regarding a pre-packaged bankruptcy was told to me by an ALPA official. Will it occur? I do not know. Is it being discussed? Yes sir yee.

You will note that the only way that U got the ATSB to change convenants thus far was to pay down the loan.

Again, Section 1113 exists for a reason. Congress was motivated by the actions of Frank Lorenzo to change the way that CBAs are impacted in Chapter 11. There is a rather stringent set of steps that must be followed (various IAM-M folks have posted these on several occasons) but the gist of the code is that labor contracts won't be shred to accomplish something that management was unable or unwilling to negotiate absent a Chapter 11 filing. Oh, and then there is the self-help problem--U would not survive one of the major unions walking off the job during a Chapter 11 filing.

Further, the ATSB presumably has something approaching an institutional memory, and it stands to reason that they might be feeling a wee bit "chapped" at the current time, moreso if U wanted to re-enter Chapter 11--no point in risking a taxpayer funded default with the same fundamental model twice, now is there?

Finally, there is no guarantee that all the creditors (including GECAS) are going to go to the mat twice for U. Bronner could find himself standing alone at the table, and it stands to reason that if he could get his $350 million out at that point that a Chapter 7 proceeding would be in short order.

Could there be a "pre-packaged" Chapter 11 filing? Sure. Could I see Elvis on my next flight to CLT? Sure.

Graceland at 11.

 

[700UW]

USA320Pilot comments: The ATSB owns 10% of US Airways and thus would have to agree to restructure the loan guarantee covenants. It's unclear whether or not the Board would take such action, but they have agreed to restructure the loan guarantee before.
Respectfully
USA320Pilot

Wrong the ATSB does not own 10% of US Airways, this was all ready explained to you, they have the warrants (rights to purchase) 10% of US.

Try again!

 

[700UW]

With US Airways in Chapter 11 bankruptcy and an announcement by United Airlines that the second-largest US airline had hired bankruptcy lawyers after the attacks of September 11, many Grievance Committee Chairman, Assistant General Chairman (AGC), Grand Lodge Representatives (GLR) and other union officials were eager to hear an explanation of bankruptcy and how it could affect our futures. For that reason, District 141 M. brought our bankruptcy attorney Sharon Levine of Lowenstein Sandler PC to explain.

Levine started her presentation with an overview of bankruptcy. The main goal of bankruptcy is to relieve a debtor of debts, thereby providing an opportunity for a fresh start. Bankruptcy also benefits creditors by providing a forum for an orderly liquidation of a debtor’s estate or a judicially scrutinized plan for full or partial repayment of creditor, and protecting unsecured creditors from preferential or fraudulent transfers of the debtor’s property and requiring adequate protection of secured creditor’s collateral.

There are two types of filling, Chapter 7, Liquidation and Chapter 11, Reorganization.

Levine continued, explaining the two types, but described Chapter 11 filings in depth. She explained the process and enlightened the attendees on all aspects of a chapter 11 filing. One thing that has stuck out in the US Airways members was a term called Fraudulent Conveyance.

Fraudulent Conveyance: A transfer of the debtor’s property is fraudulent if, made with the actual intent to hinder, delay, or defraud a creditor. (Note that sometimes the debtor’s actual intent maybe inferred circumstantially by certain “badges of fraud.†Alternatively, a debtor receives less than the reasonably equivalent value and was insolvent at the time of the transfer or became insolvent because of it or had “unreasonably small capital†remaining after the transfer for its business operations or intends to incur debts that it will be unable to repay as they mature. Many of the US Airways members asked hard-hitting questions about this as US Airways sold off airplanes and parts for less then fair market value not too long ago.

Our United attendees asked assertive questions in regards to the ESOP stock, numerous assets that United owns, and the ramifications on how they would be affected if United decided to file.

Levine also went over all the procedures and steps in the bankruptcy codes. One item she covered in depth is the 1113 letter, which refers to the section of code that ensures that a company negotiates with the union before they seek abrogation of the labor agreement. When a company seeks protection, the agreement remains in effect. When a union negotiates an 1113 letter it secures an agreement with the company showing that the company will not seek further cuts from labor. To this date, no company that has had an 1113 letter negotiated has ever asked the court to abrogate it.

Companies that request abrogation of the labor agreement but it must meet the following nine (9) distinct requirements:

1. The debtor in possession must have made a proposal to the union.
2. The proposal must be based upon the most complete and reliable information available at the time of the proposal.
3. The modification must be necessary to permit reorganization.
4. The modification must provide that all affected parties be treated fairly and equitably.
5. The debtor must provide the union with such relevant information as is necessary to evaluate the proposal.
6. The debtor must have met with the collective bargaining representative at the reasonable times subsequent to making the proposal.
7. The debtor must have negotiated with the union concerning the proposal in good faith.
8. The union must have refused to accept the proposal with good cause.
9. The balance of the equities must clearly favor rejection of the agreement.

Levine also noted that bankruptcy is not the preferred course for your contract.

 

[PITbull]

The BK judge didn't take anything from AFA because AWA DID NOT FILE BK. NOT as part of the loan package. That might be whiy. AWA went into BK YEARS before ('93?)

Bob,

You are correct. AW did not go into BK in 2002. I over spoke.

They applied for the ATSB guarantee loan, and their restructuring to qualify did not include any concessions from the F/as and HP was approved.

 

[700UW]

No employee group had to take concessions at HP in order for HP to get their ATSB loan.

 

[700UW]

Your extreme left position as the "Socialist" should understand that anything is possible right now. h34r:

Welcome back Zues.

The Sons of Pericles were started in 1926 by a group of Manchester, N.H. AHEPANS. The founder was Dr. Alexander Cambadhis. He helped the fledging new youth group with their dealings with other organizations as well as with the Order of AHEPA. His goal and the goal of the Sons of Pericles is to promote Hellenism to the youth and to keep the fire of our Motherland burning for generations to come. Together with the aid of some members of the Order of AHEPA from the Manchester, NH, Chapter, these young men were the first members of the Order and are known collectively as The Mother Lodge of the Sons of Pericles

 

[fatburger]

A320,

If you are "at peace" with the prospects of UAIR closing its doors because it's "just a job" what other flying opportunities do you have? Are you going to retire and hang up your wings? Your attitude about chapter 7 is hard to believe. I hope you have a back up flying job lined up. Good luck.

-fatburger-

 

[cavalier]

Slaughter? Did the Waffen SS take over while I was away? Spare me

No Bob you spare me with any further of your self-ordained business/people expertise and stick to you copies and orthopterous order.

 

[usfliboi]

BLAH BLAH BLAH Thats what it feels like reading some of your posts...... No ceo will ever satisfy the fab five FORGET IT. Amazing its the same negative anti anything but your opinions. Sit back and watch,cuts will occur like it or not and i will supoort at this juncture any idea that will save employee jobs and is fair. AYYYYY that koolaid is good!

 

[cavalier]

BLAH BLAH BLAH Thats what it feels like reading some of your posts...... No ceo will ever satisfy the fab five FORGET IT. Amazing its the same negative anti anything but your opinions. Sit back and watch,cuts will occur like it or not and i will supoort at this juncture any idea that will save employee jobs and is fair. AYYYYY that koolaid is good!

If this management said they needed sacrificial union leaders to be eviscerated live so YOU could continue to exist, you would give them your blessings, you and the few others on here who know nothing of brotherhood being you people are so self-centered.