Negotiations........why?

[Buck]

  Shame on you guys for letting that happen for 30 yrs. I have been here for 40 yrs and 3 airlines and yes negotiations were tough. I'm not saying that. I am only saying you shouldn't tip your " Mindset " to your enemy. Everyone will not be pleased with the JCBA because everyone has a different objective on what they believe is owed to them. It's a joint effort and all the unhappy Hooplah out in the open does nothing for the hand your negotiators are trying to tip in your favor. 

With vast amount of experience perhaps you can further educate us with you ability to watch airlines fail under your watch. What we don't need is for you to raid our savings with your IAMPF funded or not. You know that pension is not for the members of the former USAir alone. It is IAM and therefore AFL-CIO. It is that entity that the members here at the LAA should fear. The majority of the employees and therefore members of the TWU have dealt with concessions from the time they walked in the door. It is this concessionary posture that the TWU brought upon itself that causes many to seek other representation. When the representative you pay to give better wages and benefits allows it's members to stay at the bottom of the industry only to keep union membership up, with fear as there main message, many are confused. The TWU is good at one thing, the propagation of the negatives and fear, whether it is true or not. Why is there a movement by AMFA at all? The Line Mechanic is just beginning to start down this path of retribution after the Overhaul Mechanics representative has used it's power to push them around. The time is coming and I hope I am retired when the Line Mechanics will find a way to legally separate themselves from Overhaul, because the two groups could not see down the same path.  Perhaps it is good that the IAM is here? Maybe they can show the rest of us real unionism?

 

[700UW]

And no one at US ever took cuts?
 
The IAMNPF is separate from the IAM.
 
And US filed chapter 11 twice in less than two years, you all got equity, we got nothing, and our pension was terminated not frozen.

46% of the maintenance workforce was laid off after bankruptcy part 2.

 

[Buck]

And no one at US ever took cuts?
 
The IAMNPF is separate from the IAM.
 
And US filed chapter 11 twice in less than two years, you all got equity, we got nothing, and our pension was terminated not frozen.
46% of the maintenance workforce was laid off after bankruptcy part 2.

And you want to bring that here?

 

[Real tired]

No there wont, it most likely both options will be offered.

If both options happen to be offered, which they probably won't be, I and many others I know would transfer to the 401K plan, in a New York minute.

 

[Real tired]

 
You can't loose your pension, either it goes to pbgc or stays with IAMNPF.
Here at AA ours is frozen, AA tried to dump it on PBGC but was rejected.
 
Here is a question since you say most won't vote to loose/stop future acrcruals.
 
If we are the Assoc. and we all have a say do you think the TWU will vote to keep 401k or go to a plan that is controlled by the IAMNPF ?  Or are you saying that the US guys will get a seperate Vote?  You can't have it both ways...
 
The IAMNPF makes less money per yr than the 401k we have now. the IAMNPF has been around only since what? (2008-2008)
 
How much does the average US guy get with his time in the plan? It's only what $2.00 per hr for every straight time reg work hrs, correct for a ball park number of $4300.00 per yr. Find out what the AA guys are making in the 401k before you pump up your chest.
 
The IAMNPF is a multi company plan so if any companies withdraws they will pay some penilty to with draw but that limits the constant input of money and the IAMNPF will have to reduce the payout per retired IAM member to stay solvent? Y or N???
 
The assoc. has alot to work out before this joint venture since I can't call it a merger of two unions into one at AA.
 
It may be part of the CBA now but I doubt it will be there very long. AA stopped the pilots/Flight att./TWU pension why would they keep the IAMNPF going fwd? Just a question?

The IAMNPF can, most definitely, go to the PBGC, but it's a multi-employer plan, so it covered under a different set of rules.  The basic idea is to cut the payout as much as needed first, to attempt to keep it out of the government controlled PBGC.
 
That's basically what happened to the Fleet Service back in '08 just as we entered the plan.  Ask mike33, he's part of the Fleet group that had their benefit cut as much as 40%.
 
We've been it the plan since '08, the Fleet Service have been in the plan since '05.  It takes 5 years from the first day in the plan to become vested.  If you retire before that, it's a lump sum payout.  They just sent me my paperwork in the mail, and I don't have it with me, but my monthly check would be somewhere around $600 per month, before taxes.
 
They most likely would credit most of you for time served, so after 5 years vesting, you would be eligible for the 30 and out, or early pension, or other options just like you would have been in the pension since your first day on the job.
 
In the last contract of 7-18-2014, the IAM said for years, "hold on guys because we are negotiating a huge pension increase".  In the end, we got...... zero.  We're still at $2.00 per hour.  The sad thing is, my poor apathetic coworkers voted for it hook, line and sinker.  And the lead negotiator who said "buckets of money", retired.

 

[Real tired]

Here's a little reading on what might happen to the IAMNPF if the economy should tank, or if we don't get enough new members in the plan to cover those who are drawing from the plan:
 
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-law-allows-cuts-in-multiemployer-pensions-2015-01-07

 

[700UW]

They only had future accruals cut not what the already earned.

 

[Rogallo]

No there wont, it most likely both options will be offered.

 
Kinda like being told we'd get to vote on the association!
 
We can't believe anything we're told.

 

[Traymark]

Here's a little reading on what might happen to the IAMNPF if the economy should tank, or if we don't get enough new members in the plan to cover those who are drawing from the plan:
 
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-law-allows-cuts-in-multiemployer-pensions-2015-01-07

This is a great read, thanks for posting.
Anyone on here that still advocates for the IAMNPF over a 401k with a healthy company contribution/match, please, talk me through the upside.

It's been mentioned that the 401k is susceptible to market downturns.
Clearly, so are pension vehicles such as the IAMNPF.
So, no difference there, equal risk.

The IAMNPF is run by someone appointed by the IAM, not a JP Morgan or Fidelity .
So you get your pension monies invested in whatever Joe Shmo IAM guy decides to put them in, you have no say.
401k: currently the AA 401k is run by Fidelity and you can either choose a target date fund geared to when you want to retire or you can choose to have a brokerage account and choose what funds you want to invest in ( my personal favorite) .
So in the 401k, you choose what to invest in and how much.
IAMNPF, no choice, just ride in the back of the bus and hope it goes where you want it to.

Let's talk portability.
IAMNPF: no portability, in fact, if you retire early and want to work somewhere else, you loose a portion of your monies from the IAMNPF.

401k: totally portable. You want to transfer your savings into another account, say a 401k with new employer, you can. Or into a personal Roth account.
You retain total control over your retirement savings in a 401k.
IAMNPF, you have no control.
If the fund looses money or becomes underfunded, your payouts get arbitrarily reduced to whatever the powers that be need to reduce them to.

For anybody on the AA side that is 50 and over, and planning on retiring in the next 10 yrs
( that's about 95% of the mechanic group btw), I have looked for an upside for the IAMNPF, I haven't found one. If there is any, it couldn't possibly out weigh the massive downside when compared to a 401k.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

The IAMNPF can, most definitely, go to the PBGC, but it's a multi-employer plan, so it covered under a different set of rules.  The basic idea is to cut the payout as much as needed first, to attempt to keep it out of the government controlled PBGC.
 
That's basically what happened to the Fleet Service back in '08 just as we entered the plan.  Ask mike33, he's part of the Fleet group that had their benefit cut as much as 40%.
 
We've been it the plan since '08, the Fleet Service have been in the plan since '05.  It takes 5 years from the first day in the plan to become vested.  If you retire before that, it's a lump sum payout.  They just sent me my paperwork in the mail, and I don't have it with me, but my monthly check would be somewhere around $600 per month, before taxes.
 
They most likely would credit most of you for time served, so after 5 years vesting, you would be eligible for the 30 and out, or early pension, or other options just like you would have been in the pension since your first day on the job.
 
In the last contract of 7-18-2014, the IAM said for years, "hold on guys because we are negotiating a huge pension increase".  In the end, we got...... zero.  We're still at $2.00 per hour.  The sad thing is, my poor apathetic coworkers voted for it hook, line and sinker.  And the lead negotiator who said "buckets of money", retired.

 
 
Real tired
 
This is the type of information that the US guys should be giving us at AA.
 
This shows the AA guys just what some of us here knew already by talking to USAir mechanics.
 
​Smoke and mirrors by the IAM and it's supporters.
 
Scare tactics by the IAM just to keep the money flowing in.  Just as this association formation.
 
This joint venture is a idea I assume dreamt up by the AFL-CIO to keep both groups paying union dues since they (TWU/IAM) are both part of AFL-CIO. There is a NO Raid Clause by the affiliated unions and neither wanted an election or run off. 

 

[700UW]

The fund is run by someone who is voted on by the board of trustees, which is half appointed by the IAM and half appointed by companies.

Keep up the misinformation.

 

[Roadking5560]

It's been said here that there is no guarantee against loss with a 401k but I beg to differ with the statement.  I currently have my 401k holdiings in the AAFCU option.  As such I am protected from any loss up to $250,000.00.  I know the interest rate is terrible but taking into account the (measly) match the company gives It is appreciating.  My plan upon retiring is to move it into a fixed for life annuity offered by a AAA credit rated insurance company.
My payout per month on approx. $210,000.00 would be in the neighborhood of $950.00-$1000.00 for myself and continue for my wife once I pass.  There is also a state guaranty fund offered in most states to cover losses by a bankrupt insurance company although it may not cover 100% of the losses.    

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

They only had future accruals cut not what the already earned.

 
We knew that but you still are always saying it's in the cba and no one lost anything.
 
Just like the IBT plan WAY TO Many restrictions placed on US IAM represented employees with this. The AA 401k although not perfect and does have its risks as well.
 
But thanks for finally admitting that the IAMNPF can reduce it's pay out to secure it's future.
 
This is why we as AA employees should NOT get involved. It would be better if the IAM froze your account and have all of you get into our 401k match plan.
 
This and soooooo much more needs to come to light before we as a group see any JCBA.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

And no one at US ever took cuts?
 
The IAMNPF is separate from the IAM.
 
And US filed chapter 11 twice in less than two years, you all got equity, we got nothing, and our pension was terminated not frozen.
46% of the maintenance workforce was laid off after bankruptcy part 2.

 
Then why was the IAM threatening the members during the IBT raid ?
 
You have in the past explained who is on the IAMNPF board both Company and IAM members.
 
It was maybe at the time of inception a good idea and maybe it is. But from our side now looking at it does not sound like AA union members should get into this since it is a multi company plan. With restrictions that stop your payout if you go back to work or more companies withdraw from the plan putting it into jeopardy.
 
Not wishing any ill will on any USAirways Union member we are all in this together.

 

[700UW]

Not a threat, if you aren't an IAM member nor in a coordinated bargaining unit you are not allowed to be in the plan.

Ask the former NW ramp and CSA what happened after the merger with DL, if they were allowed to remain in the plan and accrue future benefits.