More Work
- Thread starter TIME FOR CHANGE
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PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH
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- Oct 9, 2003
- 1,401
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Final score in this game BOB OWENS 1, mweiss 0. 
The thrill of victory and the agony of defeat! 
The thrill of victory and the agony of defeat! seed
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Michael, just exactly what bad reputation do I have? Do you think my family knows? Do you think the neighbors are aware, as you, my reputation?
Believe this or not, some union members actually have a positive reputation. The act of judging all for the dislike of a few is the flaw I see that is apparent.
seed
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mweiss said:
Michael, explanation accepted, but take this to heart. Many times, more times than I would like to admit to, the mechanics of a dock have come to the aid of an inept manager or floor level supervisor. We have actually found ways, through the assistance of our leads, to "go around" the manager's wishes/instructions, in order to produce an air-worthy product in record time. In other words Michael, "no matter how hard you try to screw this operation up, we'll be there for you". We welcome the supervision that have "rose from the ranks", and actually had hands on experience as an AMT, but we suffer from the management personnel that have not, hired with little or no experience, to guide our daily ops.
I beleive we'll all survive, in spite of our combined actions. Just my thoughts.
eolesen
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- Jul 23, 2003
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seed said:
And as a manager at HDQ, I wish there was a way to get more people to promote up into supervisory and manager positions because I think we'd have a better overall operation. When given the chance, I've always looked for someone who started out in the ranks and speaks airline. Degrees and other skills are secondary...
I don't think its for a lack of wanting to hire people from within, but simply a matter of there being very few people who want to move into management positions. There's just no incentive for it -- not only do they lose their union protection, but they also have the potential to earn less less over time than the people they supervise.
IIRC, pilots and flight attendants who promote into management positions have their occ seniority frozen until they move into their second management position. If they choose to step back, they've only lost the time spent in the management position. If a clerk or AMT promotes into management, I believe they start out with zero occ seniority should they elect to downgrade. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If given the ability to downgrade and keep seniority if it doesn't work out, I think we'd see more people willing to take a chance.
No I did not. Where did you see anything like that?mweiss said:
See there you go again, you complain about me putting words in your mouth but then you repeatedly do precisely just that!
Your fustration is becoming obvious.
Why not just admit that you are wrong and move on?
Former ModerAAtor said:
Why not simply pay more?
Early on in my career I saw how management treated management. I had just started my first semester under a scholarship at Adelphi University for Business Administration and I simply dropped out. What was the point? I liked being a mechanic and after I saw what I saw I knew that I would never go into management. I saw how Crandall delighted in humiliating lower management. I've often said that they do to them what they would like to do to us.
If a clerk or AMT goes into management their occ stays in place for a period of time, after that time has elapsed he loses it.
The fact is that its the company that discourages down grading, look at how even within the union ranks they have inserted language discouraging it with Crew Chiefs.
If the company wanted such language put in it would have been put in, it costs the union nothing but it weakens the companys control over its own management. If many in lower management could go back, many would, and the company could not crap all over them as they often do.
Recently we had a supervisor who had around 15 years quit, he went to Fed Ex ground. He was a good mechanic with many years experience, gave management a try, was a good and respected supervisor, could not go back to the floor, dont know if he really even wanted to, and he quit. Left the industry.
To quote Crandall, "If you dont want to move up, then we dont want you in the organization".
seed
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At TWA, as management, you held the ability to return to the ranks if desired. Your union seniority froze, no longer gaining days.
This, I felt, was a plus. Our management's job was not "held over their heads" so to speak. They, for the most part, were mechanic upgrades and knew the A/C business well. If they desired, they could return with their old seniority date and again begin accruing seniority. They were not "forced" to operate totally as upper management demanded. They had options.
This, I felt, was a plus. Our management's job was not "held over their heads" so to speak. They, for the most part, were mechanic upgrades and knew the A/C business well. If they desired, they could return with their old seniority date and again begin accruing seniority. They were not "forced" to operate totally as upper management demanded. They had options.
