More On Concessions

[flyin2low]

AOG, didn't you work for CC Air? They are not operating so you can disclose that.

 

[LiveInAHotel]

All the airlines continue to cry and say they need more concessions, from their employee groups. It needs to start from the top and work its way down the ladder. If they quit getting these multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses, we wouldn't have to give so much up with concessions.

Besides we're all already under paid for our professions. I don't know about you guys/gals at US, but we at AA can't afford to see anymore concessions! Always vote NO on concessions! Don't give into corporate greed!

 

[hammerhead]

cavalier, the Airtran pilot union voted unanimously for temporary pay cuts after 9/11 to keep all pilots on property. over 80% of the pilot group voted for it and it worked. meanwhile U said no forever and now there are 1800+ pilots on forlough. did the USair pilots move for such a thing after 9/11. I wonder if anyone else knows?

 

[cavalier]

cavalier, the Airtran pilot union voted unanimously for temporary pay cuts after 9/11 to keep all pilots on property. over 80% of the pilot group voted for it and it worked. meanwhile U said no forever and now there are 1800+ pilots on forlough. did the USair pilots move for such a thing after 9/11. I wonder if anyone else knows?

I don't think so but there are enough pilots on here to give you an accurate answer.

 

[AOG-N-IT]

usfliboi,

I'm not a fanatic about how the unions operate as a whole either...yet with the likes of which we are dealing with here...they are an absolute must.

Regarding your lack of concern for credibilty here. Well I think you have summed up your contributions better than anyone could have hoped for.

Lastly , Have you ever given any thought to using a simple tool in writing known as paragraphs when typing or writing the english langauge? By not using such structure , you compound your admitted lack of desire to be taken as credible.

I'll let you in on a little secret. You can give to Dave and Dave until the cows come home..but if our contributions are the only plan they know or care to share? We are as doomed as they make'em.

Continue to support Dave..and give until you have nothing left if you desire? Like you , I have shed myself of debt since the first year I joined this place...yet I refuse to simply play along and work for nothing , all the while the money is going out the back door due in part to greed...and foremost shear stupidity.

Lowering the bar now , without being linked to a defined plan that has promise ,will do nothing more than make a TWA-esque takeover of U possible...or an Eastern-esque liquidation certain. Everything is not linked to the employee's working for nothing here. The sooner you and CCY come to terms with those facts? The sooner we just might have a chance to get things right.

 

[hammerhead]

nevermind

deleted

 

[usfliboi]

Thanks for the insult! I m not taking time to structure my sentences for YOU! Im curious where you get your high level info from. I have never heard anyone in this managenment team say it was gonna be just more pay cuts..... Where did u see that ? I believe it was a little more detailed and has been since he arrived? JUST THE FACTS PLEASE!!!!!! Lets end it at we disagree and only time will tell (end of sentence and discussion)

 

[AOG-N-IT]

AOG, didn't you work for CC Air? They are not operating so you can disclose that.

flyin2low,

Yes I did work for CCAir...and it's something I'm damn proud of too.

CCAir was a great little USAir affiliate that had an intersting history. CCAir began as a very simple commuter known as Sunbird Airlines..and later morphed into a somewhat larger feeder for Piedmont.

CCAir took a major downturn after the US/PI merger...and with the addition of a somewhat hardnosed leader named Kenneth Gann , it emerged from Chapter 11 and started showing promise again. We worked real hard at that little airline , with what anyone in the know would call "meager resources" and somewhat un-inspiring leadership below the rank of CEO.

I was fortunate enough to have paid my dues to the aviation Gods with CCAir and another CLT based firm known as Charlotte Aircraft Corp....and I even worked at an FBO before that. I also had time in support of CO shortly after the takeover of Peoples Express. I even had offers to work for Southern Air Transport in MIA , but declined due to having a spouse in nursing school in CLT at the time So yes , I've seen my share of the good and the bad.

I was also fortunate enough to be with CCAir when we controlled the CLT Commuter Operations there...and I was there to see the JS-31's replaced by the Super 31's as well as the Shorts 360-300's go away in favor of additional second hand DHC-8-100's that we obtained from Horizon.

My fortunes continued after I was able to leave CCAir in favor of taking more lucrative employment with a larger eastern US based airline. Thankfully I left CCAir when it was at the peak of its game. Sadly I left behind hundreds who's luck was beginning to run out. I escaped CCAir before Jonathan Ornstein got his fingers dug into them. I even had a hand in getting a few friends out in time too.

CCAir will always be something to look back upon with fond memories...yet a high degree of sadness too , especially as to how it was destroyed by Dave Seigels buddy JO.

I summary...I've paid my dues to be where I'm at..and at the wages my background and knowledge are worthy of. I have no desire to going back to Commuter wages or benefits at this juncture in life...and I will resist doing so...and I'm equally prepared to make a living at my second love in life , which I did well with before. ( The automotive industry)

I was on board with Seigel at first..I was/am eager to see U survive...and if that meant giving some to keep the boat afloat at the time..So be it !! That was my one and only act of blind faith in this regard.

Having seen what those concessions have led too , which would be nothing more than buying time as opposed to taking the ball and running with it. I'm firm against giving more to people whom have no clue..and the integrity to match.

 

[28yearsnojob]

concessions are the way to go, so that the retires wont lose there health
benifits and there income leveling opions on their retirement. IF the cwa or the iam had any brains they would get a 15, 20 , 25 and 30 year retirement in the new
contracts which they are going to have to negotiate anyway.This way at least the people that want to get out can and the company can hire at the begining of the
pay scale and get rid of the the most senior agents.But do you think they will have the sense to do this NO .

 

[ClueByFour]

This thread is proof positive of two things:

1. There is a sucker born every minute, and

2. I'll always have somebody to sell that bridge to....

 

[Harry Callahan]

Thanks for the insult! I m not taking time to structure my sentences for YOU! Im curious where you get your high level info from. I have never heard anyone in this managenment team say it was gonna be just more pay cuts..... Where did u see that ? I believe it was a little more detailed and has been since he arrived? JUST THE FACTS PLEASE!!!!!! Lets end it at we disagree and only time will tell (end of sentence and discussion)

usfliboi, you need to go to mgmt & just bend over and stick your nose well I won't say it here.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

usfliboi, you need to go to mgmt & just bend over and stick your nose well I won't say it here.

Too late, his nose is already there! And he's acting hypoxic (lack of oxygen!)

 

[networking]

You are just never happy are you?

The CWA wanted to be able to inform their members on what the transforamtion plan contained, except any confidential financial information. The company said no, they did not want any information told to the CWA members.

The CWA was trying to do their job and INFORM their members.

Can you not see that?

Funny how it is in the NY Times today for the whole world to see and the company can't even tell its own employees.

New York Times today? I went to their website and could not find anything. Is the "plan" out? Please inform this out of the loop employee and if it is not out....when will it be and why all the secrecy? This company just loves to keep secrets.

 

[700UW]

delete please

 

[PITbull]

First and foremost AOG let me make it clear to you and your buds..... Im not here to gain credibilty from you or anyone else on this board. What i say is my opinion just as yours is yours. This is not about management vs employee or employee vs management as you would have it , it is deeper and more rooted. The Management team has made many mistakes and will again, and you will give again like we all have and will. In one form or another , you will give my friends whether its here and now with this airline or sold and have it done then. ITs simple isnt it? Dont you see that ? Some would like to believe that surely this dude isnt a usairways employee ! Wow this guy is nuts. He actually can do the same job as many and still have faith? WOW He can remain positive. ???????? WOW He doesnt look to his union as a savior? WOW He doesnt actually need this company to survive? I do not have the debt that many have on here. I was taught a lesson back in 1989 right after the merger. NEVER depend on a company for your future. ITS ABOUT MONEY FOR THEM >!!! ITs about making money for US! Guess who has always (and always will) come first ! SHareholders....Investors! I knew then to watch what i spend and since that horrible day that one sad misguided man bought the best airline this country has seen since and dismantled it, things have never been the same. The day that richmond VA catering tossed every single item off the plane in the name of this is the way it is done i knew to watch it. I knew to watch it when our company would Delay a n aircraft to remove the speed bird ( 2hrs ) I knew to watch it... Instant MAJOR raises for every one!!! major sced changes with crews!!! ( HEY WE GET TO CHOOSE OUR TRIPS?) major hiring etc all to be un done not even one year later . Yes the writing has been on the wall since 1989, it has all been down hill since. Dave did not create the shambles, the mess,and the box its placed itself in that our company is in . Its one of greed over time and yours truly with its union leading the way of taking more raises ,and money and less productivity all in the name of me me me me . Oh my friend i know all about this airline. Ive lived it, worked it, breathed it ! I blame the management in the past ! Do i like what is happening? ? NOPE! ! In the end .... was there enough done to save it. Well we will soon find out wont we.? Preach to me and others all you want. Most employees at this company cares less about our union or the POLITICS between both the company and unions. They want a job !!!!!!!!! They are here not because of the money for the most part but because of the industry. An industry that has changed and gone.

USfliboi,

Great for you that being a "(alledged)" f/a is a past time for you. Great that you are independently wealthy and don't need the job or the income to survive. Great that you are more dedicated to the "shareholders" of this company more than you are of the survival of your collegues.

Your position is not respected, even if it is your opinion.

Many folks here need to be able to support their families at a job they do most of their waking hours. "survival" is the key. Our obligation as employees is not to secure a handsome return on a "risky investement" for a major stakeholder. That maybe your interest, and the interest of senior executives who have upwards of over a million shares granted to them just because. Our jobs is to provide a service that meets the customers' "expectation". That is WHO we are beholden to. Without them, there is no stakeholder, company, or job. That is our obligation to our company for a fair, livable wage. Contrary to your last two sentences above, the majority who are in this industry, came because the jobs were condusive to support familes. THIS IS NOT A HOBBY. Your words in your post, I have heard before. Mixed in your message, is the message I've heard from senior management. :angry:

I state this because I believe you are very confused.