More Airline Cuts Ahead ? (Post Gazette 9/13)

[missthe727]

I understand the dismay at any decision to down size PIT further.

What I don't understand why this would be done if there was no underlying reason( profitablity, O&D, competition ).

Why is this happening? What other reasons are there for them to do this? What theories do people have?

If they are trying to get the 20+ senior people in PIT to quit they need to get a clue that it's not happening. Those people won't move, they'll just start commutting along with how many hundreds (thousands) of other employees that have been forced to do so.

The way to get rid of the senior people whose game plan of retiring early was yanked out from under them by 2 BK would be to offer 2 years of medical insurance paid for by the company. That's the main reason a lot of these people stay. They need the insurance.

As for everyone here that posts that PIT is just a has been--I'll agree with you on that to a certain degree, but when you think about it, for some reason, it's still open.....

 

[SS255]

I understand the dismay at any decision to down size PIT further.

What I don't understand why this would be done if there was no underlying reason( profitablity, O&D, competition ).

Why is this happening? What other reasons are there for them to do this? What theories do people have?

Because the spreadsheet says so?

What the spreadsheet does not take into account is the customers' reaction to not being able to connect via PIT: "They took away the flights to/through Pittsburgh. I refuse to fly through Philadelphia. I'm going to stop flying US Airways."

The only flaw in my theory is when US is the cheapest ticket: Then all of a sudden connecting through PHL isn't so bad! But at least I recognize when I have a flawed theory!

 

[Poug Darker]

PIT must be downsized for the United merger. With a PHL hub and ORD hub, PIT is redundant.

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

Also I don't think anyone is saying to bring back the hub in Pittsburgh as it were in the past. They COULD rework flying to ease Philly a bit and let Pittsburgh handle some of the extra. I absolutely think it's done. Tempe is not going to admit to failure nor will they try and fix the old mess that the management before us were in with the county. EVERY other airline is working but US in Pittsburgh. Isn't that strange? They have added parking twice I believe and you STILL don't have enough room. They have added the overflow security in the old "E" gates for all that O&D that isn't there. O&D numbers are higher since before 9/11 WITHOUT Usairways hubbing there. Isn't THAT strange? The airline is a joke. Most Pittsburghers were in shock at first that US was leaving. Nobody gives a Sh!t anymore if they stay or go really. People are obviously flying and the business is obviously there as well. I think US should have at it with their successful Philly HUB. Though it brings in dough as we all know NOBODY can EVER, EVER tell you how much is LOST there. All personal views of the city of Pittsburgh itself or the pirogies and the rest aside the place worked and could have been rightsized, and reworked to be profitable. It's ALL personal and political. PERIOD! ! ! !

As usual Travelpro your post here is dead-on======I would not let anyone in this management run my light timers at my house---talk about incompetence-----

How about running the place right 1st before you start running your mouth about something being unprofitable....

Take for instance----They just made a big stink about the mainline gate structure in PIT and closed down 4 of the 14 mainline gates claiming that the short term lease payments on those 4 additional gates were just costing too much----(US has only 10 long term leased gates in PIT) yet they continue to lease around 20 gates for express flights on the A-Concourse, all at short-term lease rates and operate the whole operation with two separate work groups---now how dumb is that? You want to talk about an in efficient operation...with all the flight cuts you don't have one group of employees sitting around doing nothing half the day---you have two groups doing it....

Just think of the cost savings on gate space alone in PIT if they would consolidate all the work under 1 group (mainline) where it should be anyway enabling them to eliminate the entire cost of around 1/2 of the short-term leased gates and the entire cost of the elimination of a sub-contracted group of employees---including management and administrative cost as well as all in airport leased office and break room costs.......

I estimate the cost savings in this scenario to be in the millions per year and this lame management team will not even look at or consider this option as it has been beaten in their ears since day 1 of the merger...Nothing but lame excuses from these clowns anytime this is brought up----

So under this reconfigured scenario---one could just imagine how competitive US would be in PIT and how much lower the cost would be------

Again here is Doug Parker making claims about how PIT is this and PIT is that---yet he cannot even figure out something that is so obvious that if it were any clearer it would be smacking him in the face...Any in efficient operation makes costs soar and this management has no clue how to run anything---PERIOD

These are the types of things Southwest does and has always done well----

Too bad we end up with all the idiots....

 

[zethya]

This is what the BTS is showing for the year ending June 2007:

CLT all airlines except US 13.46 mil pax...US only, 16.69 mil pax

PIT all airlines except US 6.84 mil pax...US only, 2.84 mil pax

Take US out of the equation, CLT is moving almost 2x the pax

Those are Total enplaned/deplaned passengers (including all connections), not O&D.

Here are the O&D numbers:
2006 (Scheduled Airline Flights Only)
Total Domestic O&D
17535560 PHL
8197620 CLT
7203420 PIT
Total International O&D (Rounded Up)
4107000 PHL
1900000 CLT (approx 80% Caribbean)
204000 PIT

General comment:
It's quite obvious why PHL is the "crown jewel" of the network and could sparkle even more if US got their act together.
It's a fact, economically Pittsburgh cannot provide the necessary ingredients to support a major Hub - no matter how many "perfect" airports it encompasses or how loud it's supporter scream. NO ONE - not a single domestic or international carrier has agreed to even try one trans-atlantic flight from Pittsburgh - including using a 757. So don't blame US for PIT's dilemma. They won the lottery once and they think because of that, they deserve to win again - ignoring the historically negative profitability it exudes to it's User/s.

 

[USstew23]

IF they do close PIT they should at least offer a decent "buyout" to those that are left (ie. insurance, money, etc. similar to what WN just did). Someone mentioned earlier about why keep BOS, DCA, LGA opened. First of all LGA wasn't even a base anyway until the 2000 contract went into effect and the fence came down on the Shuttle F/A's. Now they can't keep enough people there unless they're so junior that they can't get a transfer. Look at the pairings with all of the layovers in BOS and LGA, without the Shuttle we only have mainline flying to the hubs and that is even getting marginal, BOS/LGA/DCA-PIT for example is pretty much all RJ's. You can look at the seniority lists for BOS, LGA, and DCA, there are some VERY senior people in those bases. I know some will argue that we need LGA and BOS to support the Shuttle operation but with the way they run that tragedy now it could all be done with 1 base in DCA (I say this because there actually is quite a bit of mainline flying there besides Shuttle) and maybe keep BOS, LGA, and PIT as sattelite bases which would probably make some people very happy. Something has to give somewhere and why not satellite bases like DL has? I know if for example LAX and SAN were used as such that would make alot of people that commute happy and possibly ease some of the tension for those folks that are based in PHX. So many ways to fix alot of this and ease some fears yet with all of the "talent" running the show (union included) they can't even attempt to try.

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

Those are Total enplaned/deplaned passengers (including all connections), not O&D.

Here are the O&D numbers:
2006 (Scheduled Airline Flights Only)
Total Domestic O&D
17535560 PHL
8197620 CLT
7203420 PIT
Total International O&D (Rounded Up)
4107000 PHL
1900000 CLT (approx 80% Caribbean)
204000 PIT

General comment:
It's quite obvious why PHL is the "crown jewel" of the network and could sparkle even more if US got their act together.
It's a fact, economically Pittsburgh cannot provide the necessary ingredients to support a major Hub - no matter how many "perfect" airports it encompasses or how loud it's supporter scream. NO ONE - not a single domestic or international carrier has agreed to even try one trans-atlantic flight from Pittsburgh - including using a 757. So don't blame US for PIT's dilemma. They won the lottery once and they think because of that, they deserve to win again - ignoring the historically negative profitability it exudes to it's User/s.

So answer this for me if you think you can----

Why are CLT numbers so close to the PIT numbers and US has like 550 to 600 flights a day out of CLT and around 100 out of PIT----

Does that not strike you as a bit odd?

Truth is CLT is and always was a much smaller O & D market then PIT-----Just stating the facts

 

[LD3]

So answer this for me if you think you can----

Why are CLT numbers so close to the PIT numbers and US has like 550 to 600 flights a day out of CLT and around 100 out of PIT----

Does that not strike you as a bit odd?

Truth is CLT is and always was a much smaller O & D market then PIT-----Just stating the facts

bts.gov
No other airline offers connecting svc it CLT besides US, so if 13.46 mil pax are shown using the other airlines, why would that not be considered O&D?

 

[leprechaun]

Just close your eyes Jimmy and click your heels together and say, " Bring back PIT as a hub, bring back PIT as a hub, bring back PIT as a hub." and all your dreams will come true.

It could happen, when monkeys fly out off Doug Parkers arse.

 

[cactusmike]

Don't look to Kirby or Parker for any breakthrough in marketing ideas. We have had an ongoing battle out West for years to go back into the midwest markets we gave up in the mid 90s. ICT, DSM, MOL, OMA all had more mainline service, service that resulted in full jets. We pulled back during CH 11 and although half of Arizona comes from Iowa (the rest are from Chicago) we still do not have the service there we once did. And the nice thing about midwest passengers is they generally don't no show. They seem to have a real problem with yield management. I'm sure PIT could work, running a shadow bank in the morning and one in the afternoon to take the pressure off PHL would boost traffic to many North/South or East/West desinations.

 

[AstroLounge]

PIT must be downsized for the United merger. With a PHL hub and ORD hub, PIT is redundant.

IF only that were TRUE, I may buy into it, but......... The only way I would want ANY part of that combination is to see the Clowns of Tempe go BYE BYE too. They have screwed up TOO MUCH already and even in UAL's darkest days, they don't deserve to see this bunch at the helm. Talk about grounds for a Coup' hell,I would hand them the guns AND supply the ammunitions.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

IF only that were TRUE, I may buy into it, but......... The only way I would want ANY part of that combination is to see the Clowns of Tempe go BYE BYE too. They have screwed up TOO MUCH already and even in UAL's darkest days, they don't deserve to see this bunch at the helm. Talk about grounds for a Coup' hell,I would hand them the guns AND supply the ammunitions.

AstroLounge,

You know what, F'em, f'em all!!

Personally, Pittsburgh is better off without US. Everybody around here will be just fine. No, I don't expect another airline to come in here and build a hub -- I doubt it will ever be one again. Still, there will always be airplanes flying into PIT and as always there will be people to get on the planes and go where they need to go. Loyalty to US Airways in this town died a long time ago. Sadly, from the utter arrogance and mismanagement coming from Tempe, PIT won't be the last hub/focus city to say f'em to US Airways. New motto: US Airways begins with you, f you!

Later,
Eye

 

[DesertFA66]

Pit is finished as a base, they are just trying to give the blow over time.

 

[orioleman]

to our brothers/sister in PIT

unfortunately You have become the BWI of the 21 st century,, remember when Wolfe went in and said BWI can't make money . Pulls out and
2 yrs later SW has a hub and is doing just fine.. Parker like Wolfe is giving the competition a very nice airport that was designed to work as a hub
away for free.. OF course PIT can't make money ... DOUGIE pulled out all of the service.. WHAT a moron .. and to come back and say PIT is not holding its
own .. Well HELLO .. DOUG YOU PULLED ALL THE SERVICE...

ALLEGHANY / USAIR .. made MILLIONS using PIT as a HUB... SO DOUG I SAY GO BACK TO TEMPE and have a BUD and drive home .. YOU DUMB .. A ??

 

[Prince of PAWOBs]

Just think of the cost savings on gate space alone in PIT if they would consolidate all the work under 1 group (mainline) where it should be anyway enabling them to eliminate the entire cost of around 1/2 of the short-term leased gates and the entire cost of the elimination of a sub-contracted group of employees---including management and administrative cost as well as all in airport leased office and break room costs.......

I'll preface my comments by reminding you of how much I respect you and your opinion. I hold both in the highest regard.

Now, considering that PIT might end up becoming mostly Express flying, what is to keep Tempe from keeping PSA there instead of Mainline? Our pays rates are much lower than Mainline and we have a contract already in place. In addition, we would only have to be trained on one addtional regional jet type in the Embraer family, which Republic has been pushing for anyway, citing reduced costs as the major reason. Mainline employees would have to be trained on five additional aircraft, both regional jets and turboprops.

Unless, of course, they would transfer all of the PSA employees to Mainline. We wouldn't mind another raise.