More AA gates coming in LAX
- Thread starter IORFA
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WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #107
I don't need to be a VP of anything to realize that DL is simply not going to move to maintain the same space it has right now.
Anyone that even remotely thinks that DL is going to move in order for AA to grow and consolidate its operation has to be a few cards short of a deck.
Again, no one has doubted that AA will grow.
The only people who are fixated on this whole topic are the few of you that think that AA ALONE will be able to grow and it will devise a plan that will block DL.
I know AA and WN are both Texas airlines but it will be obvious that the strategy works in neither LAX or DFW and LAX has given no indication whatsoever that they are willing to exclude DL from growth.
Give up the notion that AA will grow and DL won't.
It's childish and supported by no reality.
and it also doesn't resolve the issue that DL IS GROWING now and has a pretty small share gap with AA despite the fact that AA right now has 2 1/2 times more gates than DL has.
Anyone that even remotely thinks that DL is going to move in order for AA to grow and consolidate its operation has to be a few cards short of a deck.
Again, no one has doubted that AA will grow.
The only people who are fixated on this whole topic are the few of you that think that AA ALONE will be able to grow and it will devise a plan that will block DL.
I know AA and WN are both Texas airlines but it will be obvious that the strategy works in neither LAX or DFW and LAX has given no indication whatsoever that they are willing to exclude DL from growth.
Give up the notion that AA will grow and DL won't.
It's childish and supported by no reality.
and it also doesn't resolve the issue that DL IS GROWING now and has a pretty small share gap with AA despite the fact that AA right now has 2 1/2 times more gates than DL has.
NewHampshire Black Bears
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
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Maybe American Airlines......just needs to Buy/Merge with Alaska.
Now THAT might help with the aformentioned LAX gate situation.
(And it Sure as HELLL would make things VERY Interesting in SEATTLE, and to a somewhat lesser degree in PDX)
Hmmm. !!
Now THAT might help with the aformentioned LAX gate situation.
(And it Sure as HELLL would make things VERY Interesting in SEATTLE, and to a somewhat lesser degree in PDX)
Hmmm. !!
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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- #109
AS isn't interested in merging with anyone. They have said that repeatedly.
Not only is AS a much lower cost airline than AA which means that huge amounts of AS' flying would become unprofitable under AA's cost structure but SEA makes little sense as a domestic connecting hub in AA's network which means even more cuts to SEA would likely come.
and as long as AA and AS want to be buddies, AA will give up the opportunity to fly some of the busiest routes from LAX which includes SEA and PDX.
Not only is AS a much lower cost airline than AA which means that huge amounts of AS' flying would become unprofitable under AA's cost structure but SEA makes little sense as a domestic connecting hub in AA's network which means even more cuts to SEA would likely come.
and as long as AA and AS want to be buddies, AA will give up the opportunity to fly some of the busiest routes from LAX which includes SEA and PDX.
FrugalFlyerv2.0
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- Oct 29, 2003
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You sound way too defensive. Maybe NHBB is onto something ... ... ... 
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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- #111
you are free to interpret what I wrote any way you want but it doesn't change that AS has had the opportunity to merge with multiple airlines and wasn't interested. and the economics and strategic reasons why AS doesn't want to merge with a larger airline are very obvious to anyone who wants to see them.
It is also pure fantasy to think that AS will jump into AA's arms at this point when they have said they aren't interested in mergers.
AS is doing relatively well with its strategy. So is DL. The notion that AS needs anyone is far-fetched.
The implications of AA's decision to partner with AS is simply that AA won't fly some routes on its own metal or they risk doing the very same thing DL has done which is to add capacity in key AS markets.
and since AA and AS can't talk about what either side might want to do in key markets, AA has to assume that any market additions on its part will be seen as hostile to the AS relationship.
if that was otherwise, AA would have added service in key AS markets but they have not. and that simply means that AA will not be as large at LAX as it could be if it flew some of those routes with its own metal.
It is also pure fantasy to think that AS will jump into AA's arms at this point when they have said they aren't interested in mergers.
AS is doing relatively well with its strategy. So is DL. The notion that AS needs anyone is far-fetched.
The implications of AA's decision to partner with AS is simply that AA won't fly some routes on its own metal or they risk doing the very same thing DL has done which is to add capacity in key AS markets.
and since AA and AS can't talk about what either side might want to do in key markets, AA has to assume that any market additions on its part will be seen as hostile to the AS relationship.
if that was otherwise, AA would have added service in key AS markets but they have not. and that simply means that AA will not be as large at LAX as it could be if it flew some of those routes with its own metal.
It's notable that the overlap between the AA and Alaska networks has only grown in recent years (SEA-DFW, PDX-DFW, PDX-ORD, SEA-PHL, SEA-JFK, now SEA-PHX and PDX-PHX) and yet - unlike relationships between Alaska and certain other of its "partners" - the relationship between AA and Alaska (in the Pacific Northwest, at LAX, and just in general) appears stronger than ever. Interesting ...
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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- #113
the only thing interesting in what you noted is that AS is flying to AA's hubs. that is exactly what you would expect to happen in a partnership.
It is also noteworthy that AS has added service to DL's hubs - but I'm sure you see that as hostile but their growth in AA hubs as friendly.
They don't put smiley faces on route maps. They add flights where they can connect passengers to/from AA and DL hubs because they have a codeshare with both airlines. Same for WestJet.
so far, AA has not been willing to add flights from LAX to AS' hubs.
It is also noteworthy that AS has added service to DL's hubs - but I'm sure you see that as hostile but their growth in AA hubs as friendly.
They don't put smiley faces on route maps. They add flights where they can connect passengers to/from AA and DL hubs because they have a codeshare with both airlines. Same for WestJet.
so far, AA has not been willing to add flights from LAX to AS' hubs.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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- #115
I don't moderate this board and thus don't close threads.
I also am responsible only for my own actions. People get threads closed because they don't want to see the facts of the industry which in a whole lot of cases paint a very different picture than the notion that a lot of people seem to have and they act out in order to get a thread closed.
Here is yet one more disconnect from reality.
A whole lot of people seem to think that AA is the dominant airline in the top markets from LAX. In fact, that is not at all the case.
Based on DOT O&D data - based on where passengers end and begin their trips and not just the segments they fly - the 10 largest O&D markets from LAX are: Jfk, Sfo, Ord, Sea, Las, Hnl, Ewr, Den, Bos, and ATL
However, the part that will send some people over the edge is the fact that of the big 3, AA actually carries THE LEAST amount of passengers from LAX to the top 10 markets from LAX.
Here are the numbers:
UA 4208
DL 3138
AA 2967
it is noteworthy that DL ranks as high as it does even though DL doesn't serve LAX-ORD, DEN, or EWR. DL actually serves less of the top 10 markets but carries more passengers than AA.
It is equally noteworthy that despite UA's pullbacks, they still fly the top markets from LAX - although their pulldown of JFK will affect their numbers.
Once again, actual data shows that AA isn't near as big of a presence in LAX as Bears and a whole lot of other people think.
It is worth noting that this is based on data for the year ending March 2015. AA started ATL-LAX after that date and UA is ending JFK - to which they carried nearly 600 passengers/day from LAX. DL is also increasing capacity on LAX-SFO. Considering that DL is increasing its capacity in the JFK-LAX market and is picking up share from UA in a number of markets from LAX, the chances are quite high that DL could move even further up the list while UA moves down.
The reason why these conversations turn into such pi789ng matches is because a handful of people have a reality in their head which isn't the reality that exists in the real world.
When you compound that disconnect with their notion that AA will be given a privileged and exclusive position to achieve its goals while others will not, it is no surprise that some people continue to be disappointed about what is said here.
AA simply does not grow like they think it should because AA mgmt. knows what AA actually does in the real world.
I also am responsible only for my own actions. People get threads closed because they don't want to see the facts of the industry which in a whole lot of cases paint a very different picture than the notion that a lot of people seem to have and they act out in order to get a thread closed.
Here is yet one more disconnect from reality.
A whole lot of people seem to think that AA is the dominant airline in the top markets from LAX. In fact, that is not at all the case.
Based on DOT O&D data - based on where passengers end and begin their trips and not just the segments they fly - the 10 largest O&D markets from LAX are: Jfk, Sfo, Ord, Sea, Las, Hnl, Ewr, Den, Bos, and ATL
However, the part that will send some people over the edge is the fact that of the big 3, AA actually carries THE LEAST amount of passengers from LAX to the top 10 markets from LAX.
Here are the numbers:
UA 4208
DL 3138
AA 2967
it is noteworthy that DL ranks as high as it does even though DL doesn't serve LAX-ORD, DEN, or EWR. DL actually serves less of the top 10 markets but carries more passengers than AA.
It is equally noteworthy that despite UA's pullbacks, they still fly the top markets from LAX - although their pulldown of JFK will affect their numbers.
Once again, actual data shows that AA isn't near as big of a presence in LAX as Bears and a whole lot of other people think.
It is worth noting that this is based on data for the year ending March 2015. AA started ATL-LAX after that date and UA is ending JFK - to which they carried nearly 600 passengers/day from LAX. DL is also increasing capacity on LAX-SFO. Considering that DL is increasing its capacity in the JFK-LAX market and is picking up share from UA in a number of markets from LAX, the chances are quite high that DL could move even further up the list while UA moves down.
The reason why these conversations turn into such pi789ng matches is because a handful of people have a reality in their head which isn't the reality that exists in the real world.
When you compound that disconnect with their notion that AA will be given a privileged and exclusive position to achieve its goals while others will not, it is no surprise that some people continue to be disappointed about what is said here.
AA simply does not grow like they think it should because AA mgmt. knows what AA actually does in the real world.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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- #117
if you and others find using actual, factual market data condescending, then you have no business talking about business.
in the case of LAX, AA carried the least amount of revenue to the top 10 markets of the big 3. With UA's pullout from JFK, AA COULD have a very good position but DL is moving aggressively to win over UA business. let's see who delivers what.
When DL actually does better than AA and doesn't even serve as many routes, the whole notion of how well AA is doing and why they need so many gates is turned upside down.
in the case of LAX, AA carried the least amount of revenue to the top 10 markets of the big 3. With UA's pullout from JFK, AA COULD have a very good position but DL is moving aggressively to win over UA business. let's see who delivers what.
When DL actually does better than AA and doesn't even serve as many routes, the whole notion of how well AA is doing and why they need so many gates is turned upside down.
AA is the largest airline at LAX - combined with USAirways (of course), larger than Delta and United, domestically and soon also internationally - and yet now that these arguments have each crumbled one by one, we've moved onto AA's standing in select O&D markets.
I can't wait to read soon about how Delta will "operate more than enough flights to depress yields [at LAX] as long as it takes to finish [AA] off once and for all."
The desperation really is growing.
I can't wait to read soon about how Delta will "operate more than enough flights to depress yields [at LAX] as long as it takes to finish [AA] off once and for all."
The desperation really is growing.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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- #120
the desperation comes from those who try to build a case that is contrary to data and also contrary to logic.
No one has argued that AA isn't going to grow at LAX and isn't the largest airline there.
but what you want to believe is that AA is something beyond reality.
AA carries FEWER passengers in the top 10 markets than UA does - which has focused its marketing efforts on the local market and the highest volume markets - and DL which is growing in both areas but still carries more passengers at comparable or higher fares in the top 10 markets than AA does.
and AA does not and will not have an exclusive right to grow at LAX.
AA will grow; so will other carriers that want to.
Desperation is from those who are clearly afraid enough fo the competition that they keep thinking they can block that growth.
No one has argued that AA isn't going to grow at LAX and isn't the largest airline there.
but what you want to believe is that AA is something beyond reality.
AA carries FEWER passengers in the top 10 markets than UA does - which has focused its marketing efforts on the local market and the highest volume markets - and DL which is growing in both areas but still carries more passengers at comparable or higher fares in the top 10 markets than AA does.
and AA does not and will not have an exclusive right to grow at LAX.
AA will grow; so will other carriers that want to.
Desperation is from those who are clearly afraid enough fo the competition that they keep thinking they can block that growth.
