Minimum Wage Bill Dead

[SparrowHawk]

Some Progressives should chalk this one up to "Be careful what you wish for". It appears that the law of unintended consequences is poised to attack in a big way.

 

[777 fixer]

You used that money to "better yourself"? Some of that money was mine. It was confiscated by the IRS in order to train you. That, my friend is the text book example of the very socialism you purport to hate.
 
Confiscation is NOT compassion. You slithered up to take a drink from the government trough and because it benefited you then it's OK for you, but not OK for Tamika and her 4 kids by 4 different men? You can't have it both ways.

 
And neither can you.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

 
Actually Glenn has a valid argument this very minute. Welfare is Welfare no matter or for what reason they receive it. Whether it be General Motors being bailed out or the stereotypical "Welfare Queen" and her EBT card.
 
You used that money to "better yourself"? Some of that money was mine. It was confiscated by the IRS in order to train you. That, my friend is the text book example of the very socialism you purport to hate.
 
Confiscation is NOT compassion. You slithered up to take a drink from the government trough and because it benefited you then it's OK for you, but not OK for Tamika and her 4 kids by 4 different men? You can't have it both ways.

Honestly I could care less what you think. If I was not paying for Tamika and her 4 kids I could have invested that money into my OWN education. If Tamika made a choice to have 4 kids by 4 men then Tamika should take care of her own kids. That is what is so wrong with liberals and that is why I hate them. They will tell you that Tamika has a right to make that personal choice (multiple times) but she sure as hell does not pay a consequence for her choices, everybody else pays the consequences for her. Basically in a libtards mind it is perfectly fine to defend someones stupid decisions over and over and over and make everyone else pay for them.  
 
RECAP: So basically a libtards thought process goes like this, Tamika has a right to have 4 kids by 4 men and you have the right to pay for it for the rest of her/your/their life. 
 
As far as I am concerned I borrowed my own money and I am paying it back with interest, for Tamika's benefit.
 
I rather SOME of the tax dollars I paid for that year go to me than go to Tamika that is for damn sure.
 
Glenn is trying to compare a temporary grant I took to cover aprox 1/2 of a school year to someone making welfare a way of life. THAT IS A RIDICULOUS ARGUMENT. It is also typical for a libtard. 
 
I NEVER said I had anything against helping someone through a TEMPORARY rough time (in fact I have said the exact opposite many times, but Glenn conveniently forgets that). I have said I have something against someone making welfare a way of life and I have said it more than once.
 
Glenn is just an example of a pathetic libtard that concocts RIDICULOUS arguments to try to push his libtard agenda while ignoring anything he does not want to hear or accept.
 
Glenn basically thinks it is fine that we all pay for Tamika and her 4 kids for the rest of Tamika's worthless life because of her poor life choices but wants to slam me for going to school and paying taxes. 
 
Glenn you truly are the epitome of a libtard.  If you love socialism so much why don't you move to Russia you libtard pig.

 

[blue collar]

Honestly I could care less what you think. If I was not paying for Tamika and her 4 kids I could have invested that money into my OWN education. If Tamika made a choice to have 4 kids by 4 men then Tamika should take care of her own kids. That is what is so wrong with liberals and that is why I hate them. They will tell you that Tamika has a right to make that personal choice (multiple times) but she sure as hell does not pay a consequence for her choices, everybody else pays the consequences for her. Basically in a libtards mind it is perfectly fine to defend someones stupid decisions over and over and over and make everyone else pay for them.  
 
RECAP: So basically a libtards thought process goes like this, Tamika has a right to have 4 kids by 4 men and you have the right to pay for it for the rest of her/your/their life. 
 
As far as I am concerned I borrowed my own money and I am paying it back with interest, for Tamika's benefit.
 
I rather SOME of the tax dollars I paid for that year go to me than go to Tamika that is for damn sure.
 
Glenn is trying to compare a temporary grant I took to cover aprox 1/2 of a school year to someone making welfare a way of life. THAT IS A RIDICULOUS ARGUMENT. It is also typical for a libtard. 
 
I NEVER said I had anything against helping someone through a TEMPORARY rough time (in fact I have said the exact opposite many times, but Glenn conveniently forgets that). I have said I have something against someone making welfare a way of life and I have said it more than once.
 
Glenn is just an example of a pathetic libtard that concocts RIDICULOUS arguments to try to push his libtard agenda while ignoring anything he does not want to hear or accept.
 
Glenn basically thinks it is fine that we all pay for Tamika and her 4 kids for the rest of Tamika's worthless life because of her poor life choices but wants to slam me for going to school and paying taxes. 
 
Glenn you truly are the epitome of a libtard.  If you love socialism so much why don't you move to Russia you libtard pig.

Just a question since you sound so passionate, what's your 'solution' to the problem? Don't let Tamika have children? Cut off all funding? Tell her she has to go to school to better herself? What would you do?

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Honestly I could care less what you think.
 
grant I took
 
Libtard
 
an example of a pathetic libtard

libtard agenda while ignoring
 
we all pay for worthless life

because of poor life choices
 
the epitome of a libtard.  

love socialism so much

libtard pig.

Summed up your post for you.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Just a question since you sound so passionate, what's your 'solution' to the problem? Don't let Tamika have children? Cut off all funding? Tell her she has to go to school to better herself? What would you do?

What would I do? I would set their welfare to their current situation. If they got pregnant after the fact outside of rape then that is on them. They are an adult, if they can make adult decisions they can deal with the adult consequences.  They can either grow up and start acting responsible, put the child up for adoption, or go to jail for child neglect and have her children taken away. My way may seem harsh but I will promise you this, it would put an end to this cycle of B.S. real fast. 
 
What is rewarded is repeated. If you give someone a nice fat government handout for every kid they pop out guess what they are going to do?
 
You think you are "helping the children" but all you are really doing is enabling an abuser and impoverishing our nation. 
 
If you think bringing one child after another after another into an impoverished situation, while taxing the middle class to death to support them is a good long term plan then YOU are the one f'd up.
 
Consequences for ones actions is the best teacher and you remove that element when you pass the cost of stupid to the taxpayer. 
 

Bla Bla Bla

I don't need some libtard socialist/commie twisting my words. You can keep your "help" to yourself, though I doubt you will. 

 

[eolesen]

The tipping point for me on a government program being called a handout is whether or not there's a demonstrable return on investment.

Arguably, worker retraining programs have a positive ROI. It's an investment which winds up paying more in the long run. If enough of the recipients in those program wind up with a replacement income that exceeds what was lost, isn't the ultimate impact on taxpayers a reduction in future taxes?

GI Bill is another program that has a positive ROI, but you have to look at it a little differently, in that the ROI isn't as much outcome based as it is a way to keep the military staffed at a rate just barely above minimum wage. The highest enlisted ranks (E4) are earning just over $26K per year in base pay.

Can anyone show how there might be a positive ROI for food stamps, extended unemployment, public/S8 housing???

 

[eolesen]

A little more color around GI Bill.... It's clearly part of total compensation for serving, and it's also why the average base rate of pay in the military is as low as it is. Yes, I know there are other offsets like BAH and deployment pay...

The average E-2 earns $9.50/hr, while an E-4 (highest non-NCO rank) earns about $12/hr. If they serve long enough and can earn the promotion, the rate jumps up to $17/hr for a 12 year E-5.

If you factor in the max tuition/books/fees benefits allowed under GI Bill, it adds up to about $7/hour over the first four years of service. BAH in the cheapest and most expensive places I could find add between $5/hour and $9/hour.

 

[SparrowHawk]

99 weeks of UC is enough time for one to get an Associate's degree in a chosen field or train towards additional certifications in their current field that will or could make them more employable.
 
Right now I am currently saving up some money to get additional certifications. Could I get "help" from the government? I guess so, I haven't looked as it is against my principles. For the better part of 4 years I've qualified for an EBT card ($189/mo) and I never went for it. Why? Same reason I never looked into any grants for retraining.
 
Like I said earlier, we stop "Tamika's" food stamps on the very same day we eliminate the Farm Bill, Oil Depletion Allowance and the rest of the corporate subsidies.
 
To do less is to admit that socialism is OK for some but not others.
 
As to the GI Bill. To me their was/is a clear quid pro quo, You fight and risk your life to preserve our Liberty and we as a grateful nation will thank you financially.

 

[SparrowHawk]

The difference is I paid that money back in taxes in the first year, I used that money to better myself and become a productive member of society, and I didn't make it a lifestyle.
 
When I start using grant money (or tax money in general) as a way of life then you have a valid argument, until then STFU.

NO DIFFERENCE.
 You just proved you're a socialist when it benefits you personally, just so long as you get to say who is excluded.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

a nice fat government handout
 
Consequences for ones actions

I don't need some libtard socialist/commie

You were clearly ready for your handout.

You supposedly left a journeyman electrician job for a $7.00/hr job at AA. Then got laid off and took your handout.

I guess you only believe in life decision consequences for others. Handouts ok for you.

Sparrow has you nailed you hypocrite.

 

[blue collar]

What would I do? I would set their welfare to their current situation. If they got pregnant after the fact outside of rape then that is on them. They are an adult, if they can make adult decisions they can deal with the adult consequences.  They can either grow up and start acting responsible, put the child up for adoption, or go to jail for child neglect and have her children taken away. My way may seem harsh but I will promise you this, it would put an end to this cycle of B.S. real fast. 
 
What is rewarded is repeated. If you give someone a nice fat government handout for every kid they pop out guess what they are going to do?
 

Your solution seems fairly simple in your mind, but how would you apply it? How can Tamika go out and work if she has 4 small children at home and no one to watch them? A welfare check surely won't cover the cost of daycare. Just playin devils advocate.

As to your what is rewarded is repeated- does that mean that when/if this new career of yours doesn't work out, you'll be back on the dole for a new education?

 

[SparrowHawk]

You were clearly ready for your handout.

You supposedly left a journeyman electrician job for a $7.00/hr job at AA. Then got laid off and took your handout.

I guess you only believe in life decision consequences for others. Handouts ok for you.

Sparrow has you nailed you hypocrite.

 
One thing we should do is change "Tamika" to Betty Jo from Harlan, KY and see if that makes a difference?
 
If you've ever been through Appalachia, the rural poverty in this country will stagger your imagination. 
 
WE, not as a Government but as a society have a moral obligation to care for others less fortunate. This duty goes back to the story of Cain and Abel. At no time have we ever had a moral obligation to bail out General Motors or provide subsidies for large corporations.
 
The Government is incapable of compassion just as corporations are when it comes to layoffs.

 

[eolesen]

I suspect the difference is that in Harlan, Kentucky, if the government programs weren't there, you'd see the community stepping up to assist the poor and hungry. These people know their neighbors. Go thru a random apartment building in Queens, and you might find that the average family in any given apartment knows the last name of fewer than two of their neighbors...

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

The tipping point for me on a government program being called a handout is whether or not there's a demonstrable return on investment.

Arguably, worker retraining programs have a positive ROI. It's an investment which winds up paying more in the long run. If enough of the recipients in those program wind up with a replacement income that exceeds what was lost, isn't the ultimate impact on taxpayers a reduction in future taxes?

GI Bill is another program that has a positive ROI, but you have to look at it a little differently, in that the ROI isn't as much outcome based as it is a way to keep the military staffed at a rate just barely above minimum wage. The highest enlisted ranks (E4) are earning just over $26K per year in base pay.

Can anyone show how there might be a positive ROI for food stamps, extended unemployment, public/S8 housing???

Glenn does not care about RoI. 
 
Glenn is just going to continue to push his ridiculous argument and grind it into the ground because that is what libtards do.
 

99 weeks of UC is enough time for one to get an Associate's degree in a chosen field or train towards additional certifications in their current field that will or could make them more employable.

Who said I was out for 99 weeks?  I got laid off just prior to about midway through the school year.
 
I got out of school on a Friday, by Monday I had a full time job.
 

To do less is to admit that socialism is OK for some but not others.

Again, the difference is I did not make welfare a lifestyle. I finished my training and got back to work. But that message does not seem to pass the "libtard filter".
 

NO DIFFERENCE.

Yeah, actually there is a huge difference. You will not be supporting me for the rest of my life because I made stupid decisions and made my problem your problem.
 

You supposedly left a journeyman electrician job for a $7.00/hr job at AA. 

As Bob stated I have been out too long. That was 13 years ago at the time I got laid off.
 
Believe it or not Glenn even a FSC makes more than most journeymen electricians here in Tulsa. When I hired in the only experience I had with American Airlines was on the white collar side (revenue accounting). When they shut down most of Triad I found myself unemployed. I had many white collar employees tell me I should seek out a job with the UNION and I had support in doing so from management. I had no idea what the step raises were or what Jr Fleet Service was. I had never worked for a UNION shop before. My plan was to actually go into electrical maintenance, which would pay more than ANY contractor electrician here in Tulsa that I know of. 
 
To answer your question the reason I went to work for American Airlines is because construction work in my area had been declining. I was very impressed with the culture, integrity, friendliness, and working conditions (I was used to working under houses and 100 degree attics). Going off my impression at Triad American Airlines was a really great place to work for with really good benefits. I had no idea how screwed up TULE was. Night and day difference.
 
In short at the time it seemed like a good idea, and if I could have gotten into Electrical Maintenance and held a position in that shop it would have been a great choice. Even working at a topped out FSC wage here in Tulsa worked out better for me due to the low cost of living here and average journeyman pay.
 

Your solution seems fairly simple in your mind, but how would you apply it? 

I already told you that. In some detail I might add.
 

How can Tamika go out and work if she has 4 small children at home and no one to watch them? 

Tamika would not have 4 kids if Tamika was not getting a big fat handout for them. Tamika has 4 kids because she lives irresponsibly and everyone else cleans up Tamika's mess. If Tamika had to deal with Tamika's consequences maybe Tamika would not be such a stupid ass.