Midatlantic Rjs Qre Crap, We're Going Down!
- Thread starter isthisok
- Start date
Nice try, but that does not sound right, you have facts to back that assertion...?
A comparison between last summer and right now for example...?
I am willing to listen to what you have to back up your claim, but if all you are going on is a gut feeling or a incorrect assumption, well...
A comparison between last summer and right now for example...?
I am willing to listen to what you have to back up your claim, but if all you are going on is a gut feeling or a incorrect assumption, well...
USA320Pilot
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- May 18, 2003
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The EMB-170 is growing US Airways’ ASM’s and providing more feed to the mainline
With a competitive cost structure and new labor accords, the new business plan will increase mainline flying by 15% and add about 37 new jets from 283 to 320 new mainline .aircraft. On Friday, June 18, US Airways chief executive officer Bruce Lakefield met with Airbus Industries senior vice president of North American Sales to discuss new A320 family aircraft deliveries for the airline to commence as early as 2005.
If US Airways has a competitive cost structure, then the company can return to the capital markets to obtain new aircraft, just like the LCC’s.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
With a competitive cost structure and new labor accords, the new business plan will increase mainline flying by 15% and add about 37 new jets from 283 to 320 new mainline .aircraft. On Friday, June 18, US Airways chief executive officer Bruce Lakefield met with Airbus Industries senior vice president of North American Sales to discuss new A320 family aircraft deliveries for the airline to commence as early as 2005.
If US Airways has a competitive cost structure, then the company can return to the capital markets to obtain new aircraft, just like the LCC’s.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
Sigh...
So let me get this strait, MDA no longer has caused the remainder of Mainline to shrink, instead it is now restricting the growth of mainline flying...?
Yeah, ok. That is like blaming the "proliferation" of smaller airbus models preventing the company from adding additional Widebody Airbus then, right...?
Darn 319/320/321's...! I never realized how they have been dragging this company down until now. Man, otherwise US could have just flown only A330's everywhere...
So let me get this strait, MDA no longer has caused the remainder of Mainline to shrink, instead it is now restricting the growth of mainline flying...?
Yeah, ok. That is like blaming the "proliferation" of smaller airbus models preventing the company from adding additional Widebody Airbus then, right...?
Darn 319/320/321's...! I never realized how they have been dragging this company down until now. Man, otherwise US could have just flown only A330's everywhere...
Like I said before, the MDA has proven to be a lightining rod for negative perceptions of Airways' future...
Someone pointed it out before, and I would like verification. How different are the EMB-170 payscales compared to the one used on the F-28's...?
If they are close, it woudl negate that premise.
Someone pointed it out before, and I would like verification. How different are the EMB-170 payscales compared to the one used on the F-28's...?
If they are close, it woudl negate that premise.
BoeingBoy
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- Nov 9, 2003
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Rico,
Looking at the old contract (actually the current contract that has been modified by concession I, II, etc, that was effective in 1998)...
2nd year capt rate (there was no 1st year rate): $94.17
12th year capt rate (TOS): $104.04
2nd year f/o rate (again no 1st year rate): $46.59
12th year f/o rate (TOS): $71.00
All of these are half day/half nite.
You would know precisely, but I understand that MDA TOS for capt is $90-something, and for f/o is $37-$38
Jim
ps - Technically these are not F-28 rates, but what we called "Group 4" rates. The F-28 was the only aircraft we had that fell into Group 4 after we went to the Group pay system.
Looking at the old contract (actually the current contract that has been modified by concession I, II, etc, that was effective in 1998)...
2nd year capt rate (there was no 1st year rate): $94.17
12th year capt rate (TOS): $104.04
2nd year f/o rate (again no 1st year rate): $46.59
12th year f/o rate (TOS): $71.00
All of these are half day/half nite.
You would know precisely, but I understand that MDA TOS for capt is $90-something, and for f/o is $37-$38
Jim
ps - Technically these are not F-28 rates, but what we called "Group 4" rates. The F-28 was the only aircraft we had that fell into Group 4 after we went to the Group pay system.
TOS Captain @ MDA is 90.80
TOS Captain on F-28 was 104.04
Less? Yes but not that far off. Let's also remember the F-28 rate is before concessions, what would that rate be now if those A/C were still being operated? Would it be less than the MDA rate? hummm....
TOS Captain on F-28 was 104.04
Less? Yes but not that far off. Let's also remember the F-28 rate is before concessions, what would that rate be now if those A/C were still being operated? Would it be less than the MDA rate? hummm....
Because the scale stops at 8 years longevity, while captain pay increases over time.
It is unusual for most regionals to have pilots remain in the right seat, not unheard of, but unusual. Most "regional" pay rates are structured as such, ALG was one of the few exceptions.
It is unusual for most regionals to have pilots remain in the right seat, not unheard of, but unusual. Most "regional" pay rates are structured as such, ALG was one of the few exceptions.
The problem with MDA is low pay only. At least it is part of the US Air Group, Inc.700UW said:
The same can not be said of Mesa, Chautauqua, etc., etc. Their aircraft are replacing mainline flying and yet they contribute nothing to the coffers of the Group. In fact they are made stronger by the replacement flying, so one day they might gobble up the US Air Group!
Be careful what you wish for in growing the Franchise. That does not mean the same thing as growing the Airline. Contracting out all future flying will grow the Franchise, it will NOT grow US Airways.
GROW the BRAND, NOT the FRANCHISE.
h34r:
BoeingBoy
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I didn't realize that the MDA (Eagle) f/o rate hit TOS in year 8. The Group 4 rate for year 8 f/o is $67.86.
The latest pay table I can find on the ALPA site doesn't have Group 3 (which used to be the F-100) or Group 4 rates.
To sorta answer mweiss' question "Any sense of why they're paying the FO so substantially less than Captain?"
Don't know anything about express (or regional) pay rate evolution over the years, but mainline evolved from a system of each airplane having a capt base rate, to which was added a speed adjustment (faster paid more), a weight adjustment (heavier paid more), a night adjustment (or differential), etc. IIRC, the base rate progressed with longevity from 2nd to 12th year. (1st year - probation - was straight salary no matter what was flown). Once the captains hourly rate was determined, the f/o (and s/o, or flt engineer, when we had them) was a percentage of captains pay, with the percentage increasing from 2nd thru 12th years. Again, IIRC, f/o 2nd year was 50% up to 12th year at 66.66%. Of course, this was all reduced to a pay table for each a/c type and seat.
Apparently, at least the Eagle contract pays f/o's substantially less as a percentage of capt's pay than what mainline did (and does). It may have something to do with the fact that the regionals (or commuters, as they used to be called) were something of a training ground where a pilot would build time toward getting a job at a "major", but that's pure speculation on my part.
Jim
The latest pay table I can find on the ALPA site doesn't have Group 3 (which used to be the F-100) or Group 4 rates.
To sorta answer mweiss' question "Any sense of why they're paying the FO so substantially less than Captain?"
Don't know anything about express (or regional) pay rate evolution over the years, but mainline evolved from a system of each airplane having a capt base rate, to which was added a speed adjustment (faster paid more), a weight adjustment (heavier paid more), a night adjustment (or differential), etc. IIRC, the base rate progressed with longevity from 2nd to 12th year. (1st year - probation - was straight salary no matter what was flown). Once the captains hourly rate was determined, the f/o (and s/o, or flt engineer, when we had them) was a percentage of captains pay, with the percentage increasing from 2nd thru 12th years. Again, IIRC, f/o 2nd year was 50% up to 12th year at 66.66%. Of course, this was all reduced to a pay table for each a/c type and seat.
Apparently, at least the Eagle contract pays f/o's substantially less as a percentage of capt's pay than what mainline did (and does). It may have something to do with the fact that the regionals (or commuters, as they used to be called) were something of a training ground where a pilot would build time toward getting a job at a "major", but that's pure speculation on my part.
Jim
