Midatlantic Rjs Qre Crap, We're Going Down!

[ClueByFour]

I rode on one last night for the first time, and from a pax point of view this is a nice airplane! wide seats, plenty of pitch, overheads are big enough, windows are large and actually positioned so you can look out of them(instead of beside your waist), adjustable head rests, and bathrooms that are very large. If management actually uses these aircraft for what they are designed, it will be a success with the passengers, and hopefully U's survival.

Two gripes:

1. I can still find the press release about two classes on the US website. That was a whopper for all US1, US2, and US3, and will become even more so once these things start to darken the skies in a quasi-exclusive fashion over places like PIT.

2. The overheads don't cut it if the flight is full, and you cannot check planeside like you can with the 50 and smaller seaters. You either have to have real overheads, or take planeside baggage.

 

[foreright]

This is entertaining. I have been on the airplane for a few months and have noticed that the passengers love the airplane. I deadheaded from phl-iah and had some of the best zzz's. I think that this is the best move the company has made in a long time. They are getting additional commuter slots out of dca. Yes there are bugs, but they are better, I did 3 trips on sced....major improvments. At 41k the airplane burns 2500 lbs/hr and cruises at .80 or better. Yes the pay could be better, and it will get better...with 35 airplanes by the end of 04, and 85 by the end of 05 it will get better.

The thing that really sucks is all of this should be a part of mainline MDA/PSA/PDT/ALG...all of this bickering plays perfectly into the companys hands.

 

[wings396]

I have spoken to several ALG Captains, who don't want to go to MDA as FO's. First there is the wage cut, then there is the reality that they will be 35K F/O's for a LONG time. All of the Captain slots at MDA have been filled by former Mainline guys, as well as several F/O slots. So I do know a bit more than you give me credit for. ALG/PDT very well may vanish, but MDA will also of the entire company fades away as it appears to be.

 

[Whitestoneclimb]

Its my understanding that MDA has almost reached the bottom of the APL for Captains. This was from an MDA management pilot. So I wonder how long will it really be before they need to start recruiting captains from the CEL. Time will tell. I just hope there aren't any grudges held, especially if an APL captain is flying with a CEL F/O.

 

[USFlyer]

They went thru all 1800 (approx.) furloughed mainline pilots already?! Wow.

 

[BoeingBoy]

As I also understand it, they have gone thru the furlough list (or APL) of 1630-some (last I looked) for F/O slots - not captain slots. The next group to go thru is the W/O'ed pilots (who are accepting slots now).

Jim

ps - the 1879 number was the original number of furloughees. Thru time, resignations, "retirements" or reaching age 60, a few deaths, etc, have reduced the number of furloughees to just over 1630.

 

[Rico]

Too many variables to tell for sure, but...

The rumor is that there are 90-ish APL pilots still indicating a willingness to go to MDA as a Captain. The APL pilots that are currently at MDA on the line as F/O's are now being paid as Captains, and will move to the left seat as aircraft are added (aprx 1 A/C a week). In OCT, an unknown number of APL pilots that went to work for J4J jobs at Mesa and Chatauqua will alos be able to bid for open CA training slots per their Mainline Senority.

So the answer to your question is "who knows". The reluctance of APL pilots to return to fly in the 170 Division has been a surprise to Mngt., but time will tell how many really still wish to come back as a EMB-170 Captain. That is their choice to make, based upon each individual's own reasons. Right now there are 10 Captan slots expected to be made avail in september.

As for the CEL pilots, it has been a mixed bag so far, of mostly junior ALG captains (7-10yr DOH) and Senior F/O's (5-15yr DOH) from Allegheny. There has been a small number of same senority Piedmont pilots, yet no PSA pilots. The next bid will close this week to determine the september F/O classes, but it is expected to follow the trend of the earlier classes. All in all, MDA will have the most experienced workforce in the "regional" industry.

Everything at the 170 Division is tied to the remainder of Mainline US Airways, so anything past September remains to be seen. 21 planes are planned to be flying by Sept. (mostly out of PHL and a few out of PIT).

That is about all that is known. if US makes it, then so will the 170 Division (MDA), if US stalls, then everyone's future is grim including those in the shiny new EMB-170's

 

[ClueByFour]

I'm suprised by the lack of mainline furloughs selecting MDA, if for no other reason that anyone who is typed in the 320 series can add the -170 resume, and instantly be that much more attractive to Jetblue (assuming that the -170 and -190 will share a common type).

 

[BoeingBoy]

Clue,

Maybe someone in that position can offer a better explanation, but here goes.

Once you get a ways down the APL seniority list, there will be quite a wait to get to the left seat of the -170 since everyone at MDA and J4J's positions senior to you will get there first. That means being stuck at $37-$38 an hour indefinitely (since that's f/o top of scale). I suspect that is the deciding factor for a lot of the junior APL pilots.

As a side note, there is a provision in the mainline contract that allows f/o's going thru initial training on an airplane to get type rated in that plane (it basically boils down to 1 extra simulator ride, I think). While many of the f/o's are exercising that option now (adding to the resume), I don't know how many of the APL pilots have type ratings on the A320 series. You have to remember that most of them have been furloughed since 1991 except for a few years. The rest were hired pre-911 when things looked much better than now.

Jim

 

[Rico]

the 170 and 190 do share a common type

Most APL pilots have avoided returning to the 170 Division because of the Pay, which per the Jets for Jobs agreement was negotiated at top of scale for F/O's, yet first year for Captains (from the APL list) from the American Eagle scale for 70 seat jets. Pay has been a major issue for many considering all of the JFJ positions.

Another reason I have heard is the "Midway Factor", in which many have no desire to go thru the time and trouble of almost three months of training (to get online) only to see the company dissolve. Like I pointed out before, the 170 division is part of US Mainline, so as it goes, so shall the 170's. Uncertainty is a major factor in everyone's decisions. So some are still just "wait and see" mode while holding out for a Captain position.

A good number of the APL pilots have also moved onto other airlines, or to other jobs outside the industry that they are unwilling to leave for MDA. Like i said, it remains to be seen what each pilot will do based upon his/her own situation and the future of US in general.

 

[4lowed]

Boeingboy,

If you are 5500 (I think the is the number) or junior on the APL you will not be getting typed on the ERJ170. We don't have the mainline contract so the provision for F/O's to get typed is not in our language. The philosophy is that anyone junior to 5500 won't see a captain bid for a long time. The reality is that Captains awards are going down to the August 99 hire date level. I suspect that as the senior APL'ers come to MAA that the 5500 number will hold as the cutoff for type ratings. Management realizes that they don't want to type all of the highly skiled guys and gals we will get from the wholy owneds only to see them run off to B6. I expect to see a mass exodous anyway when B6 starts looking for ERJ guys. I don't know of one person at MAA from the management pilots on down that aren't looking for another job. The pay and benefits are lousy.

4lowed

 

[BoeingBoy]

Thanks, 4lowed. One question, is the 5500 the mainline seniority number that the APL folks have or some other number?

Jim

 

[xoxo]

I just have to say that I am making only $2.23 less than what I started at US...so..I guess mainline wages were poverty wages also?

 

[700UW]

The problem with MDA is that it is being used to REPLACE mainline flying and not growing the franchise.

 

[Rico]

You know, I have heard that quite a few times, just out of curiosity, how many aircraft has MDA "replaced"...?

Has US actually parked any mainline aircraft since MDA came into being...?

Or has the Airways fleet size remained the same?