Midatlantic Pilots Fear Loss Of Jobs In Republic

[Rico]

Man, some people sure make it hard to keep lunch down. I have never read a bigger load of patronizing, company kissing, stars in my eyes.. so who needs pay?, garbage in all of my life. I hope that anyone who thinks that way has a landlord/mortgage holder who feels the same.

That would be my problem to worry about and not you. It was my choice to accept or decline, so I have no real right to biitch about the pay... That would be true hypocrisy.

Pay cut from being a Captain in the Dash, yeah, but IMO it was no different that starting over at the few other options avail. for new employment. It was more pay than going to another regional to fly an RJ...

In the first place, there is absolutely no guarantee of flow-back to PDT. None. And if you think that ALPA (who chose to copy a contract that is light years less than the old ALG or current PDT contracts) will go out of its way to give PDT/ALG refugees their jobs and seniority back you are sadly mistaken. Does anyone think that the fact that MDA never got an actual contract wasn't to keep the airline marketable? Hello! It is all about the money. The furloughed mainline pilots got coolies wages and benefits because the less they pay them, the fewer mainline pilots will be effected. There is no way on earth that the company will ever agree to give the CEL pilots their jobs (and seniority) back. (Put yourself in their shoes. Would you welcome the expense?) 

Well, I am starting to think you are right, but not for the reasons you give. I think that a flow back into PDT will not happen because there wil no longer be a PDT on the property, rather it is looking much more likely that PDT and PSA will be sold as well to raise further capital IMO...

Meaning that PDT will no longer be a wholly owned participating carrier. And those still at PDT will no longer be on the CEL. That was one of my biggest concerns about sticking around at ALG/PDT.

My first concern was even being able to get over to MDA (which turned out to be true for many pilots who wanted to transfer over but could not). My second concern was that in the event of a sale of PDT, the flow would cease to exist (ala CALEX), and the means to get over to mainline would evaporate.

There are plenty of backfill and never filled JFJ positions at JFJ carriers that I can bid into if that is what I want to do. Personally I hope I can stick with the E-170's. But I will have to wait and see what happens.

Glass tubes and a comfortable cabin don't pay the rent, and they sure as h--l don't make you a better pilot. It's like education... someone can go to the most expensive Aeronautical University on the planet, and still not have common sense.

I beg to differ. I am a better pilot than I was a year ago. Challenging yourself has that effect.

On the other hand, there is not much more that youcan learn about flying a Dash for 8 years vs. 10, 15, or 20... Not only can I probably still outfly you in a Dash even today, I now have experience in a variety of new situations, new avionics, and different operations that you do not.

I can still get a Dash job tommorow, but I can also now get a jet job easier than you can too. I call that better "common sense" in my book.

And as far as Chataqua is concerned... MDA is not going there. Why? Because Chataqua is too burdened with scope language restrictions from the carriers they already feed to. American is fining them hundreds of thousands of dollars a month because they are violating their seat restrictions. A number of industry analyists predict that Repblic Holdings will put MDA on the Shuttle America certificate.

Republic, Shuttle America, Chatauqua... All the same thing really. But is is almost certain that a sale will occur. Where they place the planes at CHQ really does not make a difference to me. I will fly there, or somewhere else until I get the chance to recall back into US Airways someday.

For F/Os who went to MDA, it was a gamble for sure. There was a pay cut, but it wasn't anywhere near what the Captains ate. For CEL Captains, they took a pay cut in excess of 50% (not to mention reserve expenses and benefit cuts). Add that to the pay cuts they agreed to in the first bankruptcy, and they are realizing a compensation reduction in excess of 60%, compared to pre-bankruptcy compensation.

Actually the MDA F/O rate is more per hour for those ALG/PDT F/O's that were able to come over. As for Captains, well, once again, it was our choice, so we should not complain if we knew the cost going in.

And as for a gamble, I think it was those who decided to wait until they could come over to MDA directly as Captains that instead took the real gamble. Those who hoped that the opportunity would still be there for them down the road despite the obvious future changes coming up with US Airways.

I hearing this resentment from those at PDT who could have, but did not take the chance to come to MDA. Those who make thier choice to remain rather than move on. Well, I never faulted you or anyone else at PDT for having decided to stay. It was a personal choice and I understand your reasons, But I had my own personal reasons to move on too, and that is what I wrote about before. dissing me about it will not make your reasons for staying anymore valid

Now that the E-170's are no longer availible to you, and possibly even your remaining on the CEL is in peril as well... All of the sudden you and others cop an attitude towards those who decided to "go for it".

What, do you want me to belittle you for having stayed in retaliation...? What would that solve, no, you know the pros and cons of having stayed well enough.

Shiny shoes, glass tubes, and compliments don't pay the rent

It's all about the money. It always is..

Well, if that is the case, then you picked the wrong job to make money in, that is for sure.

Neither the pay at MDA nor PDT is that great. And Mainline pay is nothing to get that excited about anymore either... I said it before, the time and trouble we all put into being a pilot could have landed us in a far more lucrative position in another industry.

But you stick around in your Dash for some reason, I assume it is for the love of flying and not the meager paycheck. So enough with the insults and attitude becuase I decided a somewhat smaller "small paycheck" was worthwhile enough TO ME so as to enjoy flying again and challenge myself as a pilot.

It that was my choice for my reasons, and if I had to do it over again... I would in a heartbeat. You made your choice for your own reasons, but it is only up to you to decide if you would have done things differently, knowing what you know now.

Good Luck to you and everyone back there at PDT. I sincirely hope things work out for the best in the long run for both of us.

 

[foreright]

Rico, I think that you made a good move. You are in a valuable asset being trained on the 170...the dash's and piedmonts life are limited. The 80 cel pilots at mda are on the new mainline list. No ones future is certain, but ill take mda's over pdt's.

 

[BlackOps]

>>I beg to differ. I am a better pilot than I was a year ago. Challenging yourself has that effect.<<

Jesus... you are ready for the mainline, aren't you?


>>On the other hand, there is not much more that youcan learn about flying a Dash for 8 years vs. 10, 15, or 20... Not only can I probably still outfly you in a Dash even today, I now have experience in a variety of new situations, new avionics, and different operations that you do not.<<

Who are you kidding? It's an easier job. Flying around at FL 350 is nothing compared to dealing with big weather and itinerant traffic below 10,000.

>>I can still get a Dash job tommorow, but I can also now get a jet job easier than you can too. I call that better "common sense" in my book.<<

Incorrect. I have a number of type ratings, and not once did I walk out of the simulator with an increase in I.Q.. The systems may be different, but an airplane is and airplane, and weather is weather.

Good luck with the landlord.

 

[Rico]

Look pal, giving me a hard time about things will not change your situation one bit. You made your choice to stay at PDT, so live with it. If you werre not senior enough to have had the choice, then deal with that.

IMO you are just trying to make yourself feel better by making it seem like it was a mistake on my part to have transitioned over to MDA. Well, thanks for your concern, but it was not.

I was not willing to take the gamble that you did to wait, and lose the opportunity that was presented to us. I did it because it seemed interesting, it seemed like a good chance to advance my career, and because after living through the slow death of ALG... I did not feel that confident about pinning my hopes upon PDT being any more stable or safe than MDA.

But once again, THOSE WERE MY REASONS, AND IT WAS MY CHOICE. This thread started because others wanted to gloat over MDA's uncertainty possibly causing me trouble. The point of my reply was that if the doors closed today, I would still be glad to have gone over to MDA because I did it for my own personal reasons that have more or less been fufilled.

Would I like more money, an upgrade, a CLT base, whatever... Sure . But those were not the reason's I signed up.

You however took offense, as if leaving for MDA was the only smart choice. But that is dumb. We live different lives, have different expectations, and have different situations. Your choice was your's alone to make, and I can respect that. your choice is just different, not better nor worse. (and visa versa)

You probably took offense thnking that I implied that drivng a E-170 made me a better pilot than you. That is not correct, I was a better pilot than you long before the E-170 was even built, or MDA created (wink)

My point was that I feel I have (meaning me, myself) personally improved as a result of making the transitionto MDA. You...? I Dunno. I would have assumed that you too would learn some new things/skills, but then again you might be and fly exactly the same as you do now... (j/k).

Having flown both aircraft (and you not), I can tell you that they are just about the same in terms of overall flying difficulty. Much of the difference stems from dealing with the greater speed/altitude and being able to plan descents and configurations accordingly. The initial workload in the E-170 is also much greater because there is much more to program and setup before leaving the gate...

But other than that, the jobs are about the same..., Like you said, an airplane is an airplane.

Still, it was a challenge for me to go and learn a new aircraft, and enter into a new operation. Transitioning over from ALG to PDT would have been, and probably still would be boring for me (and I assume most others at MDA).

MDA on the otherhand meant new people, new places, new avionics, new SOP's, new callouts, and the unique challenge of trying to work with a newly designed airframe that was still being ironed out. Every software upload brings a whole new personality to the aircraft that takes awhile to figure out and work around even still.

Plus I cannot assume that you do, but I know that I do not have a issue with sitting right seat again. My ego does not rest upon wearing four stripes and a Captain's hat. Switching back to Co-Pilot for a while has given me fresh perspective and a chance to learn from some very experienced pilots. But those of us from ALG/PDT have held the respect of the MDA pilots from the APL too because we brought our own experience and skills to the cockpit... It is no fluke that the use of PHL's 31/17 and 8/25 increased with former ALG/PDT pilots coming on at MDA...

Anyways, back to the topic...

In the end, I made a sacrifice because I wanted to keep on enjoying the job and the flying . I did not hate ALG or flying the DHC8, rather I just enjoy MDA and flying the E-170 moreso... If you cannot fathom that, then I guess we will never see eye to eye.


Oh, and BTW, I have no landlord. I bought a house instead. The only real difference to me financially between having been a Dash Captain and a E-170 F/O is that I had to sell my new pickup (that I hardly ever drove), eat out less often, and skip buying a new plasma wide screen TV... You would be surprised that I do not miss those things as much as I thought I might... But thanks again for your concern.


Peace B)