Midatlantic Pilots Fear Loss Of Jobs In Republic

[PSA1979]

Despite the shady indifference and screw the juniors mentality that created the alter-ego MidAtlantic to begin with, the crews seem relatively happy.

[post="259552"][/post]​

Secondly, who agreed to the appalling MAA contracts anyway? Not the affected employees but thier senior, active counterparts who didn't and still don't give a hoot about anyone but themselves.

It'll be what goes around comes around when they are replaced too. Closer every day!

[post="259875"][/post]​

Lightyears,
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but did the "senior" f/a's just come up with the MAA idea to just get rid of the "junior" f/a's? Or was this the company's idea?

What is worse, working for MAA or just being furloughed? Did the MAA f/a's jump into the positions without the opportunity to read the American Eagle contract? Or like I seem to remember, it was posted on the AFA website for all to see prior to taking the positions. And didn't AFA go back to the bargaining table with the company to make the contract better? Insurance coverage was 6 month wait, then changed.

You act like the mainline f/a did this to the junior f/a's just to be vindictive and mean. And yes, a majority of the mainline f/a's don't realize that MAA f/a's are still a part of US, are still on our seniority list and have jumpseat rights. That needs to be changed with communication from AFA.

Your bitterness and anger at the people that just so happened to either be older than you or applied for their jobs at U before you did is very unjustified. It's all about the decisions we make in this life.

Perpetuating the "senior against junior" line does nothing to help our situation or our careers. We are all U f/a's and everything that happens, happens to all of us!

 

[MAABoss]

Lightyears,
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but did the "senior" f/a's just come up with the MAA idea to just get rid of the "junior" f/a's? Or was this the company's idea?

What is worse, working for MAA or just being furloughed? Did the MAA f/a's jump into the positions without the opportunity to read the American Eagle contract? Or like I seem to remember, it was posted on the AFA website for all to see prior to taking the positions. And didn't AFA go back to the bargaining table with the company to make the contract better? Insurance coverage was 6 month wait, then changed.

You act like the mainline f/a did this to the junior f/a's just to be vindictive and mean. And yes, a majority of the mainline f/a's don't realize that MAA f/a's are still a part of US, are still on our seniority list and have jumpseat rights. That needs to be changed with communication from AFA.

Your bitterness and anger at the people that just so happened to either be older than you or applied for their jobs at U before you did is very unjustified. It's all about the decisions we make in this life.

Perpetuating the "senior against junior" line does nothing to help our situation or our careers. We are all U f/a's and everything that happens, happens to all of us!

[post="259931"][/post]​

PSA

Well stated!

 

[Rico]

Whatever Dog and Dell...

Your willingness, nay, need to be mired in bitterness and hostility just reminds me that I do not.

Fact is, that after having been at 4 airlines, through 3 bankruptcies, and one liquidation so far in my short career, this little bump in the road seems pretty tame...

At worst, if only half of the MDA pilots are used right now, then I can probably just get over in the first batch of F/O's. If not I will be near the front of the line for call up into Republic as they add USX E-170/190 aircraft.

So I can chill for that and in the meantime go pick up a B737 Type rating while enjoying the time off with my family. Or I can just go for one of the other JFJ options, and into a CRJ or ERJ at one of the other JFJ carriers, or bid back into PDT and return to my good ol Dash 8...

But I will keep my fingers crossed that a reasonable deal gets worked out, not just for myself, but for everyone involved with MDA and Republic, There are a lot of good people at MDA that deserve such, and I think it would make Republic far more successful in the long run. I am betting that just such a win/win compromise can be found.

But no matter what happens, I will not allow myself to lose track of the reasons that I am in this job in the first place. That I enjoy the flying, I enjoy working with great people, and I enjoy doing a great job for our customers.

If money alone is the reason either of you are still in this industry, then it is no wonder that you are so unhappy and bitter. Trust me, for the time, trouble, and heart that one has to put into an aviation job, there are plenty of better paying jobs out there to be had, or businesses to start...

Yes, I need and deserve a liveable wage, based upon my qualifications, skill set, and responsibilities. But acting like a child, if one's employer cannot provide such is foolish. It is a job, not jail. I can always move onto something else. If that is what I have to do in the near futture because of the changes, then that is that. No sense in wasting time online complaining about it.

Hopefully you can think about that, rather than trying to come up with another put down to attempt to make yourself (and your own situation) feel better.

Good Luck B)

 

[Dash-8-301]

The horrible wages are a result of OTHER companies employees willing to undercut mainline. At least MidAtlantic was mainline and wholly owned employees fighting to keep the flying in house. Are you happier now that it will be someone else altogether doing it? Secondly, who agreed to the appalling MAA contracts anyway? Not the affected employees but thier senior, active counterparts who didn't and still don't give a hoot about anyone but themselves.

It'll be what goes around comes around when they are replaced too. Closer every day!

[post="259875"][/post]​

The scope clause led to the virus of the contract carriers entering our system. Which leads to you complaining about how the wholly owneds didn't do enough to save your job. You come to us with the J4J propsal telling us to go furlough ourselves to save you after 10 years of dening us a flow through and hiring MESA pilots. Feeding the virus is all you accoplished. The only thing that was helping keep the wholly owned pilots around was the MDA, which was a less than desirable situation.

Wholly owneds have had to work twice as hard to boost the morale of our pilots in spite of all of the mainline abuses. Through all this we had managed to create a place where people were willing to stay and retire. But now where is that retirement?

I realize that all of us have had to accept cuts at this time, but it seems like some people are still not willing to accept cuts. You see when I saw the mainline sob stories about the guy who was not able to get a new car but would have to hold onto his two year old Lexus I was not deeply saddened. I know what is like to live on minimal salaries and poor schedules. I have seen first year FOs crowd in four or five in a two bedroom apartment to try to make it on their tiny salaries. Please let the wholly owneds know when you have a real sob story.

 

[delldude]

Whatever Dog and Dell...

Your willingness, nay, need to be mired in bitterness and hostility just reminds me that I do not.
not bitter thought i'd give you a shot like you give others
Fact is, that after having been at 4 airlines, through 3 bankruptcies, and one liquidation so far in my short career, this little bump in the road seems pretty tame...

At worst, if only half of the MDA pilots are used right now, then I can probably just get over in the first batch of F/O's. If not I will be near the front of the line for call up into Republic as they add USX E-170/190 aircraft.

So I can chill for that and in the meantime go pick up a B737 Type rating while enjoying the time off with my family. Or I can just go for one of the other JFJ options, and into a CRJ or ERJ at one of the other JFJ carriers, or bid back into PDT and return to my good ol Dash 8...
so then go for it
But I will keep my fingers crossed that a reasonable deal gets worked out, not just for myself, but for everyone involved with MDA and Republic, There are a lot of good people at MDA that deserve such, and I think it would make Republic far more successful in the long run. I am betting that just such a win/win compromise can be found.

But no matter what happens, I will not allow myself to lose track of the reasons that I am in this job in the first place. That I enjoy the flying, I enjoy working with great people, and I enjoy doing a great job for our customers.
i may make you my role model
If money alone is the reason either of you are still in this industry, then it is no wonder that you are so unhappy and bitter. Trust me, for the time, trouble, and heart that one has to put into an aviation job, there are plenty of better paying jobs out there to be had, or businesses to start...

Yes, I need and deserve a liveable wage, based upon my qualifications, skill set, and responsibilities. But acting like a child, if one's employer cannot provide such is foolish. It is a job, not jail. I can always move onto something else. If that is what I have to do in the near futture because of the changes, then that is that. No sense in wasting time online complaining about it.
money isn't everything but it sure greases the wheels
Hopefully you can think about that, rather than trying to come up with another put down to attempt to make yourself (and your own situation) feel better.
like they say-fair exchange is no robbery
Good Luck B)

[post="259940"][/post]​

 

[flyin2low]

Or I can just go for one of the other JFJ options, and into a CRJ or ERJ at one of the other JFJ carriers,

Rico, I believe that you are on the CEL not the APL. That would not be an option for you. Hopefully you can get the 737 type or go back to ALG/PDT.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I've been guilty of glossing over the finer details of the Republic agreement as it pertains to MDA, but I believe there's one of those details that is being overlooked.....

First, for U to get it's hands on any money prior to exiting BK, the sale of the "owned" Emb-170's must be completed. Assuming that the ATSB allows U to keep any of the money from the sale, I suspect the sale of the 13 (are the last 3 on the property yet?) will happen pretty quickly though the transfer will occur at the rate of 3 per month.

Now the "fine details".....

The leased planes (15) will only transfer to Republic if U does not buy back the slots at the end of two years, IIRC. I'll have to go back and refresh my memory, but if correct the leased planes will be at MDA for a while.

Jim

 

[Light Years]

Perpetuating the "senior against junior" line does nothing to help our situation or our careers. We are all U f/a's and everything that happens, happens to all of us!

[post="259931"][/post]​

Which is my point... I was responding to the poster who was implying that the Mid folks laid themselves out like scabs to do the job cheaper. Everyone is responsible for dropping the ball and allowing scope clauses that franchise the airline and allowed an alter-ego operation. I'm not against senior people at all, but I am against ignorant people. People who don't even vote and then complain about things like tidying the aitrcraft, oblivious to the MidAtlantic contract they are a few seniority numbers away from. And yes, the company presented AFA with the American Eagle contract as part of the concessionary agreement, and it was voted in along with everything else.

The poster I was respomding to was implying that the Mid people came up with it themselves, which is far from true. Nobody would choose a dated version of the worst turboprop commuter contract in the industry to do mainline flying if they would be the ones actually doing it.

And the company would never have dreamed of offering such crap if the major airlines hadn't allowed thier flying to be outsourced to any airline with poverty wages and regional jets. The gates were opened with 50 seaters, and now we have what constitutes F100s and 732s flying around outsourced while more U people lose thier jobs. Is it senior people being mean and vindictive that this happened? No, but does it only matter when it's your job being replaced? What about when the company asks for scope relief to let a charter outfit run the transatlantic routes? Will it matter then? Or get an outside company like Ryan International to fly Airbuses as US as an affiliate? Will it matter then? Or is it OK as long as it says Express on the side?

I feel very sorry for everyone at U, particularly the F/As, and especially the senior ones. Many of them worked to make this a respectable career and saved the company time and again with nothing to show for it now. My time at U was great and I learned alot about life from some really neat people... I wish them nothing but luck, and hope they stop voting themselves out of a job. At this time it's more important than ever to keep up with communications from the AFA, vote, and know what's going on. The fact that alot of them don't even know what MAA is (which is disturbing considering the aircraft is in thier manual and the FAA holds them responsible to it) shows that they need to pay more attention.

 

[Rico]

Rico, I believe that you are on the CEL not the APL. That would not be an option for you. Hopefully you can get the 737 type or go back to ALG/PDT.

That question was answered at the last MEC meeting. Those who came over to MDA from ALG/PDT are on the US Airways System Senority List, recently updated.

LOA 91, under Attachment B-1 regarding placement upon the APL:
An "Affected Pilot" is a pilot on the US Airways Pilots System Senority List who has A. Been furloughed or has been issued notice of furlough under section 23B of the Agreement, B. has been recalled to US Airways and subsequently has again been furloughed or issued notice of furlough, or C. has received notice of furlough from MDA, a participating Wholly Owned Carrier, or a Participating Affiliate Carrier

Now, I, and anyone else from MDA, would have to be furloughed from MidAtlantic to be placed at the bottom of the APL, but if that occurs, then I am eligible to bid after everyone else ahead of me on the APL list, for new or backfill JFJ positions as they become avail. Those pilots who came into MDA from the APL are currently considered "recalled", and they too would have to be furloughed from MDA to be placed back onto the active APL list.

The APL list is not a static thing, it has been added and deleted to, as pilots are furloughed, resign, retire, or leave a JFJ position to come to MDA.

My placement upon the APL would also not launch me ahead any of my counterparts still at PDT/PSA with this situation. Those senior to me at the Wholly Owned Participating Carriers, would still remain senior to me in terms of eligibility towards any new hire US Airways pilot position, or if I return to a pilot position at my respective Participating Wholly Owned Carrier (PDT) under LOA91.

If I have my choice, I would much rather remain at, or wait a short time for MDA/Republic, But I appreciate that the JFJ option is there. The CHQ contract pays the same rate to F/O's regardless if you are on a EMB-170 or EMB-145, and the Captain rate on the CHQ EMB-145 is obviously higher than that. It would also enable me to "start the clock" on my CHQ date of hire senority (on that property), if the Jets for Jobs provisions turns out to be the only deal avail to those of us now at MDA...

Now you can start to see some of the complexity behind this situation, and why it is my hope that a better arrangement, that works for all parties can be negotiated out, rather than falling back upon the provisions of LOA 91.

 

[Rico]

Now the "fine details".....

The leased planes (15) will only transfer to Republic if U does not buy back the slots at the end of two years, IIRC. I'll have to go back and refresh my memory, but if correct the leased planes will be at MDA for a while.

Hey Jim, could you quote where that was, I would like to reread that section, as I understood it differently.

Granted, material like this is as easy to read as say, tax regulations, so I would like to make sure I understand the agreement. You might have brought forth a very important point.

Thanks

Rico

 

[Dog Wonder]

"Whatever Dog and Dell..."

Didn't I see you on Springer. While the crowd was chanting "Wh*re, Wh*re, Wh*re" the only answer was "Whatever".

"mired in bitterness in hostility"? Sorry, never been there. I do appreciate the irony in a corporate stooge being caught up in the latest cruel twist of corporate shenanigans.

 

[BoeingBoy]

This is what I was thinking about, Rico. However, after another reading it appears that the "Slot Option" refers to the sale/leaseback of the slots and not the buyback of the slots at the end of two years.

In short, my memory was faulty...

Jim

2. Acquisition of EMB-170 Aircraft.

(a) Slots Option Exercised. In the event that US Airways exercises and consummates the Slots Option, Republic will at the same time purchase the ten (10) EMB-170 aircraft currently owned by US Airways (the “Currently Owned Aircraftâ€) and, at US Airways’ option, and so long as US Airways has arranged for 100% lease financing to have been made available to Republic at such time and on terms reasonably acceptable to Republic, the three (3) EMB-170 aircraft currently committed to be delivered by Embraer (the “EMB Committed Aircraft†and, in the event the Company acquires the EMB Committed Aircraft prior to the purchase of the Currently Owned Aircraft by Republic, then together with the Currently Owned Aircraft, the “Owned Aircraftâ€; the EMB Committed Aircraft, together with any Additional Jet Service Aircraft described in Exhibit E, are the “Growth Aircraftâ€) and, subject to Republic’s satisfaction with the terms and conditions thereof and arrangements with respect thereto mutually agreed upon by Investor, US Airways and GECC, assume the leases for the fifteen (15) EMB-170 aircraft that are currently leased by US Airways (the “Leased Aircraftâ€), and, subject to terms mutually agreed upon among Investor, US Airways and Embraer, Investor shall further assume US Airways obligations to purchase additional aircraft from Embraer (the “Aircraft Ordersâ€). Republic acknowledges that it has no right to any pre-delivery deposits posted with Embraer on account of the EMB Committed Aircraft.

(B) Slots Option Not Exercised. If the Slots Option has not been exercised, the Investor shall have a one-time option, exercisable by written notice to the Company at any time during the thirty (30) day period commencing upon either the Effective Date or the date of termination of the Investment Agreement (unless such termination is pursuant to Section 9.01© or (d) thereof), to purchase the Owned Aircraft and to assume the leases of the Leased Aircraft under the terms of this Exhibit B. If so exercised, the Company shall cause its Affiliates to enter into the Republic Aircraft Transaction (subject to the applicable conditions thereto) within thirty (30) days of delivery of such notification (or such other date as the Investor
and the Company shall agree in writing).

 

[BoeingBoy]

Rico,

I did remember one detail right. The aircraft will physically transferred to Republic at the rate of 3 per month if they end up with them. The planes remaining at MDA awaiting transfer will be leased/subleased from Republic.

So even if Republic ends up with the planes, the transfer will take 10 months.

Jim

 

[delldude]

"Whatever Dog and Dell..."

Didn't I see you on Springer. While the crowd was chanting "Wh*re, Wh*re, Wh*re" the only answer was "Whatever".

"mired in bitterness in hostility"? Sorry, never been there. I do appreciate the irony in a corporate stooge being caught up in the latest cruel twist of corporate shenanigans.

[post="259990"][/post]​

you made mans best freind sick again rico.....

 

[aerosmith]

LOL