Midatlantic Pilots Fear Loss Of Jobs In Republic

[Rico]

*Sigh*

I guess both Dell and Dog need a reminder that personal attacks and insults are not allowed in this forum (per the moderators)... Take to PM, like you are supposed to.


Back to real Discussions <_<

Jim,

Thanks for the info. It is my understanding that much of the issue of transferring aircraft rests upon E-170/190 sim avail. New ones have been built by CAE, but there is still a high demand for the few that exist.

 

[Dog Wonder]

Dell,

That embarrassing picture really hurt my self-esteem. Shame on you.

 

[delldude]

Dell,

That embarrassing picture really hurt my self-esteem. Shame on you.

[post="260073"][/post]​

paparazzi got to you before i did....sorry..........

 

[Dog Wonder]

It's my fault. If I would keep my head out of the toilet, people wouldn't ridicule me.

 

[jimntx]

you made mans best freind sick again rico.....

[post="259994"][/post]​

Are you sure that DW worshipping before the porcelain goddess is Rico's fault?

 

[MidwayMetrolink]

If Republic merges them and honors seniority dates they would be the most senior anyway. How many 14 year pilots and six year F/As does Chautauqua Airlines have? I'd guess not too many. If they do end up there, Republic has money to grow, US doesn't. Not to mention it's hands on US's most valuable assets if the big blue finally topples.

There are some, with more than 14 years, and six years seniority although I won't say how many. Remember CHQ only had a few SAABs ten years ago and did not require that many Flight Attendants........but there are pilots above 14 years and Flight Attendants above six. The beginning of the growth explosion did not occur until around 2000. Who knows how this will churn out.

 

[Light Years]

Even so there are not very many. These F/As are coming from the bottom of a list of over 10,000 with seniority ranging from four to forty years. The MAA and MAA eligible seniority dates for F/As are 9/99 to 4/01. I would bet that at least 80% of Chq's F/As are junior even to that. No surprise that the biggest growth came around the time these folks were losing thier jobs.

 

[Light Years]

Where does Shuttle America fit into this? A new rumour (not sure how true) is that Shuttle America will get Chautauqua's E170s, as Republic's way of getting around the AA scope clause. Republic and Shuttle America are both owned by Wexford Capital.

If so, how would that fit in with the whole RP/MAA fiasco?

[post="260643"][/post]​

 

[dashdriver]

If not, I look into other JFJ opportunites, or wait to bid back into PDT as a Dash 8 Captain once again... Again, no biggy.

[post="259542"][/post]​

No biggy?

Tell me where it is guaranteed you will be able to come back to PDT. It seems to me that there is no language actually governing the flow back. You cite LOA 91, the very LOA that pretty much cut ALG/PDT out of the loop entirely when it came to the transfer of MDA to a different airline.

Let me quote you from last year:

----
First off, no flush back to ALG/PDT/PSA, u leave, u leave. take another look at what has been given to us in info. NOTHING says anything about going back if needed.

They instead make it clear that you will be MDA, and NO longer ALG.
----

What changed?

 

[Rico]

No biggy?

Tell me where it is guaranteed you will be able to come back to PDT. It seems to me that there is no language actually governing the flow back. You cite LOA 91, the very LOA that pretty much cut ALG/PDT out of the loop entirely when it came to the transfer of MDA to a different airline.

Dude, your post makes no sense... :blink:

Cut ALG/PDT out of the loop...? What loop are you talking about...?

Do you mean that LOA 91 made no provision for those who are still at PDT, that still wanted to come over to MDA after it belonged to someone else...? <_<

I am not sure how exactly I am the one screwing you over because of the sale of MDA to Republic. Sorry if you were unable to get over to MDA if that is what you wanted, but like all things biddable... You have no one to blame if you were senior enough to have done so, or too junior to be denied the chance.

And as long as PDT remains a Wholly Owned Participating Carrier, there is no change to anything else in the agreement so far as I understand things... Are you saying that you no longer expect/want to be able to flow up to Mainline anymore, just because you balk at the idea of your own people returning for now...?

Let me make another thing clear, MDA did not exist for the ALG or PDT pilots, rather it was built for those furloughed from mainline. Only after all those avail. on the furlough list had been exausted, was the opportunity offered to those of us at the Wholly Owneds. So I fail to understand why you have an attitude about the E-170's as if they belonged to you somehow. Face it, MDA was merely an option for those at the Wholly Owneds to flow onto the Mainline property earlier... It was a B-Scale "leftover", for us to take advantage of only after the furloughed Mainline pilots were recalled (or decided not to go there). That any of us were able to bid into it should be considered lucky. Lucky that it softened the pain of the merger transition of ALG into PDT, and allowed upgrades and new hiring to occur at PDT this last year.

If that "luck" ran out because of furloughed mainline pilots leaving Mesa filled the recent classes, or because the whole operation was sold off the property, then that is just one more bad thing to have occurred on the long list of not-cool things in the last year (for everyone at U)...


Yeah, there is no exact language spelling out the process for flowing back into PDT, no moreso than there was any written details governing the flow up into MDA last year either. But that was worked out, and I assume that the process will be reversed (bid into open positions at PDT, not displace)

A Bi-Directional flow was what allowed me and 100+ others to flow up into Mainline/MDA in the first place. To all of the sudden get all pissy because the direction reverses is stupid. Afterall, none of the Wholly Owned pilots were able to move up to MDA because of our good looks... to claim no mechanism exists ignores the fact that we have already been using it to flow up.

Let me quote you from last year:

----
First off, no flush back to ALG/PDT/PSA, u leave, u leave. take another look at what has been given to us in info. NOTHING says anything about going back if needed.

They instead make it clear that you will be MDA, and NO longer ALG.

I do not usually use a "u" instead of writing "you", so you might have me confused with someone else. But it seems more that someone is seeking an actual process to be spelled out, rather than just a basic promise that one can return if necessary... Not a declaration of intent.

That, or I was trying to scare off those more senior to me ffrom bidding into MDA All is fair in Love and War, eh...?

So yeah, bid to PDT. They really, really like you here. Don't forget to wipe with whatever contract you have there at MDA on your way out like you did to us at ALG

What are you talking about...? First off, I "did" nothing to anyone at ALG, other than leave to go to MDA. So chill out.

The fact is that like most of this situation most of the details have been left tobe worked out later on down the road. No one expected the Wholly owned pilots to be able to bid up into MDA when we did, and no one expected the possible chance of any number of us being furloughed from MDA looking for a return.

Honestly, I do hope it gets worked out for those who would like the chance to get back to the Dash. But I would prefer to remain with the E-170's as they move over to Republic, or seek other opportunities (JFJ or outside) if I am fuloughed from MDA.

I enjoyed my time at ALG, but that company, and that exact situation really no longer exists. If I have to return into what would be a new base, and a new way of dong things...Then I might as well move onto a new airline altogether and seek new challenges/opportunities...

And the part about people not liking me... "sniff, sniff" That was mean. I am sure are a pretty lovable character yourself...


Anyways, good luck to you and the rest of PDT, in whatever happens to ALL of us here at US Airways...

 

[dashdriver]

Dude, your post makes no sense... :blink:

Cut ALG/PDT out of the loop...? What loop are you talking about...?

Do you mean that LOA 91 made no provision for those who are still at PDT, that still wanted to come over to MDA after it belonged to someone else...? <_<

I am not sure how exactly I am the one screwing you over because of the sale of MDA to Republic. Sorry if you were unable to get over to MDA if that is what you wanted, but like all things biddable... You have no one to blame if you were senior enough to have done so, or too junior to be denied the chance.

And as long as PDT remains a Wholly Owned Participating Carrier, there is no change to anything else in the agreement so far as I understand things... Are you saying that you no longer expect/want to be able to flow up to Mainline anymore, just because you balk at the idea of your own people returning for now...?

Let me make another thing clear, MDA did not exist for the ALG or PDT pilots, rather it was built for those furloughed from mainline. Only after all those avail. on the furlough list had been exausted, was the opportunity offered to those of us at the Wholly Owneds. So I fail to understand why you have an attitude about the E-170's as if they belonged to you somehow. Face it, MDA was merely an option for those at the Wholly Owneds to flow onto the Mainline property earlier... It was a B-Scale "leftover", for us to take advantage of only after the furloughed Mainline pilots were recalled (or decided not to go there). That any of us were able to bid into it should be considered lucky. Lucky that it softened the pain of the merger transition of ALG into PDT, and allowed upgrades and new hiring to occur at PDT this last year.

If that "luck" ran out because of furloughed mainline pilots leaving Mesa filled the recent classes, or because the whole operation was sold off the property, then that is just one more bad thing to have occurred on the long list of not-cool things in the last year (for everyone at U)...
Yeah, there is no exact language spelling out the process for flowing back into PDT, no moreso than there was any written details governing the flow up into MDA last year either. But that was worked out, and I assume that the process will be reversed (bid into open positions at PDT, not displace)

A Bi-Directional flow was what allowed me and 100+ others to flow up into Mainline/MDA in the first place. To all of the sudden get all pissy because the direction reverses is stupid. Afterall, none of the Wholly Owned pilots were able to move up to MDA because of our good looks... to claim no mechanism exists ignores the fact that we have already been using it to flow up.
I do not usually use a "u" instead of writing "you", so you might have me confused with someone else. But it seems more that someone is seeking an actual process to be spelled out, rather than just a basic promise that one can return if necessary... Not a declaration of intent.

That, or I was trying to scare off those more senior to me ffrom bidding into MDA All is fair in Love and War, eh...?

What are you talking about...? First off, I "did" nothing to anyone at ALG, other than leave to go to MDA. So chill out.

The fact is that like most of this situation most of the details have been left tobe worked out later on down the road. No one expected the Wholly owned pilots to be able to bid up into MDA when we did, and no one expected the possible chance of any number of us being furloughed from MDA looking for a return.

Honestly, I do hope it gets worked out for those who would like the chance to get back to the Dash. But I would prefer to remain with the E-170's as they move over to Republic, or seek other opportunities (JFJ or outside) if I am fuloughed from MDA.

I enjoyed my time at ALG, but that company, and that exact situation really no longer exists. If I have to return into what would be a new base, and a new way of dong things...Then I might as well move onto a new airline altogether and seek new challenges/opportunities...

And the part about people not liking me... "sniff, sniff" That was mean. I am sure are a pretty lovable character yourself...
Anyways, good luck to you and the rest of PDT, in whatever happens to ALL of us here at US Airways...

[post="262359"][/post]​

You understood correctly about my comment of ALG/PDT being cut out of the loop once MDA is sold off. Sure it was not created for us, but we participated in the pain a while back to have a shot at progressing our careers, and the rug is being yanked out from under us. We're over it, I guess.

You captured my point that a flow back is not in writing anywhere. Perhaps your comments last year were just to scare guys off so that you wouldn't be pushed down further. That exactly is one of the things that made me think you were a specific individual from ALG.

Which brings me to my mean comment. I have edited my post, and shall explain. I was fairly sure you were a certain person who was a member of the three people on the ALG MEC who roll call voted to dispose of our contract in the PDT merger. Since you say you did nothing to us but leave, then I must have the wrong person, and am sorry for my comments, they were misdirected and should not apply to you at all. I sincerely wish for the best for you.

If you are that person, then what I said stands, they do not like that person here, they are not happy that we folded under false threats and deadlines again, signing away one of the best contracts in the regional airline business. Our contract was better than PDTs, and that's precisely why management manipulated a few people to sign it away, to take everyone a step back.

 

[Rico]

You understood correctly about my comment of ALG/PDT being cut out of the loop once MDA is sold off. Sure it was not created for us, but we participated in the pain a while back to have a shot at progressing our careers, and the rug is being yanked out from under us. We're over it, I guess.

Can you understrand why IMO it was important to get over while the getting was good. I do not fault anyone for deciding to hold out for a captain position at MDA, but on the same hand I do not expect to be faulted for taking the chance on MidAtlantic.

You captured my point that a flow back is not in writing anywhere

. And I hope yuou caught my point that nothing was in writing for the flow-up either, other than a nebulous promise of being able to "move up". Same situation as now, just a nebulous promise of being able to "move down"

Perhaps your comments last year were just to scare guys off so that you wouldn't be pushed down further. That exactly is one of the things that made me think you were a specific individual from ALG.

I do not think they were my comments, but I do remember posting in the ALG forum that guys should think it over before deciding to make the jump. The "scare guys off thing" was more a jest last post than anything serious. I have always been a big fan of people making their own minds up for themselves, and not basing their opinion upon what others/union leaders tell then to think.

Which brings me to my mean comment. I have edited my post, and shall explain. I was fairly sure you were a certain person who was a member of the three people on the ALG MEC who roll call voted to dispose of our contract in the PDT merger. Since you say you did nothing to us but leave, then I must have the wrong person, and am sorry for my comments, they were misdirected and should not apply to you at all. I sincerely wish for the best for you.

Yep, wrong guy. But interestingly enough, the MEC members that fought for and against what you speak of, ended up together in the first few MDA classes. Go figure.

If you are that person, then what I said stands, they do not like that person here, they are not happy that we folded under false threats and deadlines again, signing away one of the best contracts in the regional airline business. Our contract was better than PDTs, and that's precisely why management manipulated a few people to sign it away, to take everyone a step back.

Well, I do not know about PDT's contract enough to make a comparison. But rest assured I miss what we had contractually at ALG on an almost daily basis. But then again, it is no accident that the weakest contract of the three wholly owneds (PSA) is were the regional jet flying ended up at. Having seen things from an outside perspective, I can understand the need to have a balance between a "competitive" contract and one that provides decent pay and QOL...

But that is another topic altogether.

I can tell you this, that IMO no one has a clue how things are going to work out in the near future for ANY part of US Airways. All sorts of possibilities exist. For all I know PDT might be bought by Wexford/Republic as well So I suggest that you join me and just see how things play out. Liek I said before, it is my sincire hope that my many friends at PDT fair well out of whatever outcome that occurs...

Good Luck B)

 

[BoeingBoy]

Where does Shuttle America fit into this? A new rumour (not sure how true) is that Shuttle America will get Chautauqua's E170s, as Republic's way of getting around the AA scope clause. Republic and Shuttle America are both owned by Wexford Capital.

[post="260645"][/post]​

Here's a piece from today's Aviation Daily that discusses the Chautaugua/Shuttle America issue. At the end it talks about some of the protections that the CHQ pilots want.

Chautauqua Pilots Spell Out Terms For Shuttle America Deal

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

US Airways pilots union wants to renegotiate regional jet jobs

Jim

 

[BlackOps]

Wow! "Went to MDA to fly a great airplane... recieve compliments every day! yada, yada, yada"

Man, some people sure make it hard to keep lunch down. I have never read a bigger load of patronizing, company kissing, stars in my eyes.. so who needs pay?, garbage in all of my life. I hope that anyone who thinks that way has a landlord/mortgage holder who feels the same.

In the first place, there is absolutely no guarantee of flow-back to PDT. None. And if you think that ALPA (who chose to copy a contract that is light years less than the old ALG or current PDT contracts) will go out of its way to give PDT/ALG refugees their jobs and seniority back you are sadly mistaken. Does anyone think that the fact that MDA never got an actual contract wasn't to keep the airline marketable? Hello! It is all about the money. The furloughed mainline pilots got coolies wages and benefits because the less they pay them, the fewer mainline pilots will be effected.

There is no way on earth that the company will ever agree to give the CEL pilots their jobs (and seniority) back. (Put yourself in their shoes. Would you welcome the expense?)

Glass tubes and a comfortable cabin don't pay the rent, and they sure as h--l don't make you a better pilot. It's like education... someone can go to the most expensive Aeronautical University on the planet, and still not have common sense. No doubt every pilot who is still worth his or her salt can tellt he story of a left-seater who needs the F/O to call his turn in a basic VFR traffic pattern.

And as far as Chataqua is concerned... MDA is not going there. Why? Because Chataqua is too burdened with scope language restrictions from the carriers they already feed to. American is fining them hundreds of thousands of dollars a month because they are violating their seat restrictions. A number of industry analyists predict that Repblic Holdings will put MDA on the Shuttle America certificate.

For F/Os who went to MDA, it was a gamble for sure. There was a pay cut, but it wasn't anywhere near what the Captains ate. For CEL Captains, they took a pay cut in excess of 50% (not to mention reserve expenses and benefit cuts). Add that to the pay cuts they agreed to in the first bankruptcy, and they are realizing a compensation reduction in excess of 60%, compared to pre-bankruptcy compensation.

Shiny shoes, glass tubes, and compliments don't pay the rent.

It's all about the money. It always is.