Mesa Wants 737s For East Coast

[Cisco]

For the record. Mesa didn't sign a shitty contract to get rid of Freedom Airlines. Freedom was going to go away anyway, Ornstein wasn't even contesting the filing for single carrier. Mesa got a bad contract to capture J4J which would have been lost without something in stone to enable JO to get financing for the new planes.

Freedom was formed strictly to get around the USAir scope which read "no company which operates in code or contract with USAirways may in any livery operate an aircraft over 50 seats or 60,000 lbs". Had the AAA MEC been able to see the forest for the trees and given their brother ALPA pilots at Mesa relief to protect their America West code share, there would never have been a Freedom Airlines.

The wholly ownedes don't have the market cornered on getting the shaft from their mainline counterparts. Very much due to AAA, the Mesa MEC had no choice but to sign a less than stellar contract. However, Mesa does pay better than PSA, MidAtlantic, and American Eagle..... Both the Freedom and CCair operating agreements were superior to the Mesa contract and were given away by their represenative body, not taken by their CEO.... :unsure:

 

[matika]

BTV is not MESA. Upstairs is mainline express and downstairs is a contractor, FSS I think. MESA runs RDG, CKB, MGW, PKB, DUJ.........with 1900's

Right. BTV is not Mesa. As for the 1900 stations like RDG, DUJ, etc., those are run by Air Midwest, which is wholly owned by Mesa.

 

[BoredToDeath]

However, Mesa does pay better than PSA, MidAtlantic, and American Eagle

Cisco,

Are you really gonna make me type them out to prove you wrong? Or would you like to retract your statement and make my life that much easier?

Ahhh...nevermind. I'll just do it now and get it over with, I can't sleep anyway.

Mesa Captain 50-59 Seat Jet Aircraft PSA Captian 45-50 Seat Jet Aircraft
Year 1. 51.17 Year 0-1. 49.44
Year 2. 52.76 Year 1-2. 53.56
Year 3. 54.35 Year 2-3. 54.53
Year 4. 55.99 Year 3-4. 58.55
Year 5. 57.64 Year 4-5. 60.32
Year 6. 59.32 Year 5-6. 62.09
Year 7. 60.94 Year 6-7. 63.61
Year 8. 62.90 Year 7-8. 65.45
Year 9. 64.83 Year 8-9. 67.58
Year 10. 66.82 Year 9-10. 69.52
Year 11. 68.75 Year 10-11. 71.54
Year 12. 70.85 Year 11-12. 73.59
Year 13. 72.95 Year 12-13. 75.69
Year 14. 75.21 Year 13-14. 77.86
Year 15. 76.26 Year 14-15. 79.96
End Year 15-16. 80.77
Year 16-17. 81.57

The above rates are for 2003. PSA rates increase every 12 months.(next increase 10/2004). Mesa rates increase every 18 months.(next increase somtime in 2005, if my math is correct)

Top of scale for PSA on 10/01/08 for a 16-17 Year Captain will be 94.54 for a 45-50 Seat Jet Aircraft.

Top of scale for Mesa DOS + 54 months(I forgot what date Mesa signed their contract. Thats why I'm not being specific) for a 15 Year Captain will be 80.93 for a 50-59 Seat Jet Aircraft.

As you notice these rates are fairly close to eachother, but still prove my point. Now if we look at the First Officer rates, which for both companys, are just plain garbage as well. The only thing here that does a PSA FO any good over a Mesa FO is the fact that the PSA rates increase every 12 months instead of the every 18 months at Mesa.

Mesa First Officer 50-59 Seat Jet Aircraft PSA First Officer 45-50 Seat Jet Aircraft
Year 1. 20.47 Year 0-1. 20.60
Year 2. 27.42 Year 1-2. 25.75
Year 3. 30.59 Year 2-3. 27.81
Year 4. 31.90 Year 3-4. 32.31
Year 5. 32.85 Year 4-5. 33.31
Year 6. 33.62 Year 5-6. 34.04
Year 7. 34.07 Year 6-7. 34.59
Year 8. 34.55 End
Year 9. 35.04

Keep in mind that I'm not bringing into account the other contract items that allow a PSA pilot to make more than his/her mesa conterpart and for this post we'll just leave those out.

Since it is getting late, I'll leave you with just these and move onto the Eagle vs PSA vs Mesa part later in the day. But before I go, think about this. The PSA rates were given prior to PSA entering Bankruptcy in order to keep from taking anymore concessions. I don't think mesa had a good enough excuse to accept pay as low as ours considering that a) mesa was not entering bankruptcy and B) they were and continue to report a fairly good profit.

 

[Cisco]

Ahhh yes, hourly rates of pay. However, you didn't take into account two things. First, Mesa runs on a 28 day bid system, in other words they have 13 bids and 26 pay periods per year. Those extra two paydays make up alot. Second, they have the ability to fly larger aircraft in the CRJ-700 & CRJ-900 which signing their contract enabled them to get a great # of due to gaining relief for the -900 from the AAA MEC and also the 60+ -700's which will go to USAir J4J and United. A gain of 36 -900's and 60+ -700's from a contract which only covered 60 odd -200's was a pretty good pay raise. Less than industry per seat pay, probably. However so is JetBlue, and you like the rest of us would love to work there.

I 'm not a big fan of the way Mesa does business myself. However, they do have one thing going for them that not many have. Not one time ever has a Mesa employee had to wonder if the company would be in business tomorrow, next week, or next year. They always grow, the checks always cash, and unlike the top heavy operations and management we are used to, do a great deal with very little. Certainly room for improvment, but for certain they will be in business long enough to make the change. Will we?

 

[Furloughedagain]

Cisco said, "I 'm not a big fan of the way Mesa does business myself. However, they do have one thing going for them that not many have. Not one time ever has a Mesa employee had to wonder if the company would be in business tomorrow, next week, or next year."

I've got to admit that is a desirable trait in an employer.

I bring up that same point to my coworkers who slam Mesa -- it is an unpopular opinion at this company, but i'm fairly accustomed to having unpopular opinions.

 

[BoredToDeath]

Ahhh yes, hourly rates of pay. However, you didn't take into account two things. First, Mesa runs on a 28 day bid system, in other words they have 13 bids and 26 pay periods per year. Those extra two paydays make up alot. Second, they have the ability to fly larger aircraft in the CRJ-700 & CRJ-900 which signing their contract enabled them to get a great # of due to gaining relief for the -900 from the AAA MEC and also the 60+ -700's which will go to USAir J4J and United. A gain of 36 -900's and 60+ -700's from a contract which only covered 60 odd -200's was a pretty good pay raise. Less than industry per seat pay, probably. However so is JetBlue, and you like the rest of us would love to work there.

I 'm not a big fan of the way Mesa does business myself. However, they do have one thing going for them that not many have. Not one time ever has a Mesa employee had to wonder if the company would be in business tomorrow, next week, or next year. They always grow, the checks always cash, and unlike the top heavy operations and management we are used to, do a great deal with very little. Certainly room for improvment, but for certain they will be in business long enough to make the change. Will we?

O.K. Cisco, Whatever makes ya sleep better. I quess I'll save my time on the rest of the comparison.

BuhhByye

Oh P.S.

How did it go for you freedumb people? Get into the Union YET!!?? HA HA HA Lucky for you that you did'nt huh? Now you can see how low 737 pay can get when Johnny spins off Freedumb and turns you into the lowest 737 operator on the planet. All right maybe not the lowest, I think Russia probably has the worst pay scale.



Heres Cisco before going to sleep, in an evil little voice. "I love this place, I love my job, I think Mesa is gonna TAKE OVER THE WORLD. They'll all see, we'll show all those filthy, flithy little fat WO's. Everybody wants to be like us. And why not my "precious"? Mesa is JUST LIKE JET BLUE!!!! They'll ALL want to work here soon enough.

 

[Cisco]

Your ignorance is only surpassed by your big mouth..... I don't work for Mesa, and I am a dues paying ALPA member in good standing with the association! The beloved pilots union is about the money, though noone at Freedom crossed a picket line, there was no struck work, and noone from either America West or Mesa was on the street at the time. Now look at Continental, and FedEx..... Their dues were so desirable, the union let legit line crossing scabs on the black list back in and the only punishment due was time served as a non-union member. Tell me that doesn't smack of hypocracy! So much are they about the money, that PSA, ALG, PDT, and now MAA have been sold down the road to protect the money....

Time to take your blinders off and see the world for what it is..... The golden rule is alive and well, always has been, always will be. Though I hope it isn't true, PSA could very easily be a part of Mesa in the not so distant future and I am betting your won't cut your nose off to spite your face when it comes time for you to fly a CRJ with a purple tail.

 

[X-U]

So..... since Johnny O. is good buddies with Sir Richard, perhaps the plan is:

- UAIR sheds their Bronner-leased 737s to "help meet the requirements of the ATSB loan". UAIR employees will be offerred the "carrot" of "potential future Airbus orders to be determined later, as well as "any furloughees being offered positions at Mesa/Freedom Air".

- Ornstein leases the 737s from Bronner (keeping him happy) to start Freedom Air.

- Freedom is spun off as an entity unto itself. Branson invests the maximum allowable and Ornstein owns the rest (thus protecting himself from a potential decline in Mesa's fortunes as well as fulfilling his 'dream' of running a 'major airline').

- Possible HQ- IAD going head-to-head with Independence Air

 

[BoredToDeath]

Your ignorance is only surpassed by your big mouth..... I don't work for Mesa, and I am a dues paying ALPA member in good standing with the association!

Posted by Cisco January 5, 2003 on the thread Freedom Airlines Pilots Consent To Jets For Jobs:

Freedom is just about that, Freedom to do what it takes. We have indicated that we are not opposed to organizing, that 100% of the seats could be filled by furloughed U pilots and also the possibilty does exist for USAirways to own a significant stake in Freedom should an agreement be reached to go beyond the 30/25 jet CRJ-700 agreement. Not a bad thing considering that MDA only exists on paper.

Also posted by Cisco January 12, 2003 on the thread J4J Question Chip:

Ex U Pilot is right on the money. Though the railway labor act would prohobit Freedom from organizing until two years after start-up unless management also solicits representation, JO has offered to facilitate our wishes should they be to organize.

There are several reasons why Freedom is not organized. First, there really is no reason or motivation as our pilot board is very affective. Second, we have only been threatened and challenged by ALPA for working here, so why would we want to join up?

Your right Cisco, I don't know what gave my ignorant ass the idea that you work or worked for Freedom. It surely could'nt have been your previous posts. Could it?

As for the rest of your post to this thread, I can simply say that you don't have to cross a picket line to do damage. I think enough has been said between you and I.

 

[Light Years]

Boo-ya!

 

[BoredToDeath]

Though I hope it isn't true, PSA could very easily be a part of Mesa in the not so distant future and I am betting your won't cut your nose off to spite your face when it comes time for you to fly a CRJ with a purple tail.

Oh I almost forgot. I do appretiate that you hope PSA is not sold to Mesa, I hope that as well. But if it is I will, as you put it, "cut off my nose to spite my face".

I am however only able to do this because I own a business on the side that would afford me to be able to. I refuse to work for Mesa, and if I did'nt have my business I would quit anyway for the shear principle of what I think of that company.

Granted it would be hard to just up and quit and I'll admit that it would'nt be instant from the moment that Mesa bought the company, but I would quit within at least a year. It would be tough but there are many other things I could do.

 

[Light Years]

Amen brotha!

 

[crj579]

What I find most hilarious is reading about how Freedom was so bad when your own mainline U mec voted for rates at MAA below Freedom. Does not having union protection get you higher pay rates? Must be. Right now there are captains with less seniority at Mesa than your furloughed captains at U that will be making more than what MAA will be paying. I think many are quick to jump on the bashing bandwagon without any facts. The old herd mentality. MOO!

 

[crj579]

Additionally, I think it would be in Mesa's best interest to decertify ALPA since they have no support anyway from their other Union brothers/sisters as evidenced by the continual bashing.

 

[speedlever]

>>Not one time ever has a Mesa employee had to wonder if the company would be in business tomorrow, next week, or next year.<<

That's a bit strong, I think. Wasn't Mesa on the verge of collapse prior to JO taking over?