I think they tried very hard quite a few years ago to analyze down to things like the width of a slice of pie served aboard....and yet maintain their quality of service. They were trying to get ahead of the cost cutting curve.
Merger News
- Thread starter chellow
- Start date
I think they tried very hard quite a few years ago to analyze down to things like the width of a slice of pie served aboard....and yet maintain their quality of service. They were trying to get ahead of the cost cutting curve.
777 / 767 / 757 Love
Advanced
- Jan 26, 2012
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Can't argue with what you said, but I will say anyone who tells me how aweful and stupid the AA team is and in the same breath argues that Parker and company will be better is completely out of touch with reality.
I'm not saying you said that, just making the point, that if you hate AA maagement for their past, you got to be braindead to then turn around and argue for Parker by ignoring his past.
Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757
777 / 767 / 757 Love
Advanced
- Jan 26, 2012
- 204
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I see what you did there, you took your assumption (that the merger is good for both airlines) and made it fact, thus making Horton's actions contratry to that "fact" as a behavior contrary to the employees best interests. Newsflash, the people pushing for this merger will be long gone with their money before the mess that is left may further erode employees compensation and benefits.
Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757
Really? Seems nearly every time I fly to MIA there are many mechanics commuting onboard that were displaced from BOS but still own homes and have families situated up here that can't pick up and move to MIA.
Josh
I know. I wish people would figure out their name is ALASKA.
No different than your misguided and uninformed "opinion" that it isn't good for both companies and employees. It just isn't good for Tommy Boy. Thus the heels in the sand and kicking and screaming. Doesn't change the fact he picked a terrible design and is out of touch with his employees, customers and reality.
Yep damage. Organized labor takes for their own at the expense of non-union workers, shareholders, business owners through outrageous demands and onerous restrictions.
I think we live in the same universe but with different perspectives. If these brilliant young labor activists that you speak of are so great, why haven't they turned the ship around? The reforms on public employee pension benefits, collective bargaining restrictions, right to work laws is only accelerating as has the erosion of union membership.
Josh
jimntx
Veteran
No, I took the fact that Horton is opposed to the merger (because he doesn't get to be in charge in the new regime), and decided that if TH is agin it, then I'm fer it. The man redefines liar for our generation.
Kev3188
Veteran
It took 3+ decades to spiral down to where we are today. Expecting reform to be instant is unrealistic...
Super FLUF
Senior
- Jun 10, 2011
- 313
- 206
Like you, I am not going to argue with anything you said. The bottom line is, this management team has had multiple chances and they have blown every single one of them.
They treated the employees like crap, and the employees turned against them.
They had the chance to put forth a bold, stand-alone growth plan. They didn't. Instead we got the same ol shrinkage and outsourcing plan.
They had a chance to introduce a visionary rebranding. Instead we got a third-grade paint job that they paid millions for.
If they would have treated the employees with some modicum of respect and put forth a bold plan, we would not be debating this right now.
Like I said, they only have themselves to blame.
johnny kat
Senior
- Oct 11, 2011
- 343
- 330
72823:
Yep damage. Organized labor takes for their own at the expense of non-union workers, shareholders, business owners through outrageous demands and onerous restrictions.
I think we live in the same universe but with different perspectives. If these brilliant young labor activists that you speak of are so great, why haven't they turned the ship around? The reforms on public employee pension benefits, collective bargaining restrictions, right to work laws is only accelerating as has the erosion of union membership.
Josh
____________________________________________________________________
Yep Josh,
Just give it a few more years. When all of the baby boomers are in full retirement and broke because the 401K myth turned out to be worse odds than Vegas.
Thanks to the Reagan years when it became fashionable to do away with those ol' pension plans most companies put aside for their workers, because they were expensive and also lauded by the unions. So as the unionized workers where being demonized and demoralized by those crazy republicans they were also being ripped off.
So, as the millions of boomers set in front of a space heater eating a can of soup and wondering how to keep the lights on. I'll bet a few will be thinking how different their lives would be if they only had that defined pension money that the generation before them got.
And when the government realizes that it is going to have to foot the bill to support the millions of boomers anyhow, a few people in DC will be wondering what it would have been like if only the boomers had those defined pension benefits coming instead of having to rely on the government for every kind of assistance.
So, as industry took the money in those pensions (Hostess brands/Frank Lorenzo) and enriched management at the expense of the working stiffs. You have to ask just who got stiffed? The answer: the workers, the government and the tax payers.
Sooner or later someone in the labor movement is going to be smart enough to ues the above scenario to convince the workers and government alike that unions really do have a very important roll in improving the lives of the average worker and society in general. And unions will come roaring back.
On a side note, i'll bet those foreign workers who were employed when the US jobs were shipped to their shores, will be doing fine in old age because the countries they live in will be taking care of them (socialism style).
So, thank you rebublicans and thank you R. Reagan (sarcasm)
Yep damage. Organized labor takes for their own at the expense of non-union workers, shareholders, business owners through outrageous demands and onerous restrictions.
I think we live in the same universe but with different perspectives. If these brilliant young labor activists that you speak of are so great, why haven't they turned the ship around? The reforms on public employee pension benefits, collective bargaining restrictions, right to work laws is only accelerating as has the erosion of union membership.
Josh
____________________________________________________________________
Yep Josh,
Just give it a few more years. When all of the baby boomers are in full retirement and broke because the 401K myth turned out to be worse odds than Vegas.
Thanks to the Reagan years when it became fashionable to do away with those ol' pension plans most companies put aside for their workers, because they were expensive and also lauded by the unions. So as the unionized workers where being demonized and demoralized by those crazy republicans they were also being ripped off.
So, as the millions of boomers set in front of a space heater eating a can of soup and wondering how to keep the lights on. I'll bet a few will be thinking how different their lives would be if they only had that defined pension money that the generation before them got.
And when the government realizes that it is going to have to foot the bill to support the millions of boomers anyhow, a few people in DC will be wondering what it would have been like if only the boomers had those defined pension benefits coming instead of having to rely on the government for every kind of assistance.
So, as industry took the money in those pensions (Hostess brands/Frank Lorenzo) and enriched management at the expense of the working stiffs. You have to ask just who got stiffed? The answer: the workers, the government and the tax payers.
Sooner or later someone in the labor movement is going to be smart enough to ues the above scenario to convince the workers and government alike that unions really do have a very important roll in improving the lives of the average worker and society in general. And unions will come roaring back.
On a side note, i'll bet those foreign workers who were employed when the US jobs were shipped to their shores, will be doing fine in old age because the countries they live in will be taking care of them (socialism style).
So, thank you rebublicans and thank you R. Reagan (sarcasm)
jimntx
Veteran
He probably won't notice until his parents have to move into the guest bedroom because they can no longer afford to live independently. I expect there will be much weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth by the younger generation when they learn that all these "shareholder value enhancement moves"--such as doing away with pension plans--turn out to be nothing but executive wallet enhancements.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
To be fair, it's not the same management team. You've got a lot of people in C-level positions that weren't there two years ago, and a lot more people in SVP positions who weren't there two years ago.
Y'all can personalize Horton as an Arpey clone, but I don't see it that way.
He's made all the tough calls that Arpey didn't have the stomach to make. Gerard wanted to be liked. Tom doesn't give a damn. And honestly, it's not his job to be liked. It's his job to turn the company around.
Had Horton been empowered two or three years earlier, and been able to accomplish what's been done in the last 14 months, you'd be able to see that. But you don't. You just see your paychecks being smaller, and want to blame Horton for that.
