Management Presents "plan" To Afa

[756pro]

Hey Pitbull:

USA320Pilot is correct with his comments. While your posting did paint a positive picture on the meeting with management, you continue with the negative diatribes how the AFA will not doing anything until management changes. Guess what? WN and the LCC could care less if CCY changes or how they treat the employees.

GUESS WHAT AGAIN: We the U employee could care less if this management team fails completely. You don't get it do you! We are finished, it's over unless and until, like Pit says, things change at the top!!

 

[usfliboi]

Hey Pitbull:

USA320Pilot is correct with his comments. While your posting did paint a positive picture on the meeting with management, you continue with the negative diatribes how the AFA will not doing anything until management changes. Guess what? WN and the LCC could care less if CCY changes or how they treat the employees.

GUESS WHAT AGAIN: We the U employee could care less if this management team fails completely. You don't get it do you! We are finished, it's over unless and until, like Pit says, things change at the top!!

Actually you guess again. You will give again as we all will. I recall the same posters saying the same things last time. If you dont care for this company the way you project that you dont, then you have many choice. I thank God your not in the majority!

 

[756pro]

Why is it that EVERYONE who has a view different than yours a shill for management or just plain stupid?

I can answer that real simple. Because one must be either a shill or insane to support the actions of this disingenuous management team. Their words no longer mean anything, carry zero weight. No one will take them seriously, no one of sound mind that is. It's simply logic, not bashing, just logic.

 

[756pro]

. I thank God your not in the majority!

MARK MY WORDS, WE ARE and that's why Dave and team are scared to death that they will fail to trick us again as the buffoons they believe we are.

 

[700UW]

useyourhead and usfliboi, how did Dave serve you this?

We gave concessions to Dave twice, he lied, cheated and stole and you trust him?

Wow, amazing.

Why is it that EVERYONE who has a view different than yours a shill for management or just plain stupid?

The reason I change Mr Ford's name around is to get under your skin. It's OK for you to just blast away at Dave Siegel and call him a liar and worse. But if I call IAM leaders names like Puffy Tom Buffy and Scotty Fraud, you whine and cry like a baby.

Grow up! I think IAM is 110% RIGHT on the outsource issue. Always have felt that way.

When I read your posts and rhetoric it makes me wish I wasn't on the mechanics side. But right is right and I call them as I see them. No point in shooting the messenger. Especially when I can rattle your cage so easily.

ok if you want to call him fraud, I will call you pineyboob.

Were you at any of Dave Siegel's roadshows?
Lie#1
Where he promised ALL furloughed employees a job at MidAtlantic?

Fact#1
Company wants no stock clerks, no utility and part-time mechanics and the fight to vendor out everything and everything.

Lie#2
Said if mechanics gave up pushabcks it would be $2 more an hour.

Fact#2
Reason Dave wanted a second vote as this was false information and the judge would not abrogate the contracts, that is why Dave sent a letter to all our houses before the second vote.

Lie#3
Told the pilots vote for the first two rounds of concessions to save your pension.

Fact#3
Went to court and terminated the pilot's pensions.

Lie#4
Vice President of Maintenance Charlie Nardello in a captive audidence meeting told the mechanic and related (before the second vote) that if you vote for this contract you will be saving your scope language. Presented us with charts, facts, figures, track schedule of the S-check being performed in Tampa Heavy Maintenance starting in August of 2003.

Fact#4
Closed the Tampa hangar in the middle of the night, right before thanksgiving and vendored out the S-check to foriegn owned Singapore Technologies Mobile Aerospace.

Do I need to go on?

Lies, deciet and thievery at its best brought to you by Dave, Dave and Jerry.

 

[756pro]

Well said 700!

And we have posters calling us hardliners. LOL

What do they call themselves I wonder. How can anyone with a sound and rational mind even think to listen to one word that comes out of this management teams lips!

How many times to we forgive the lies? How many times do we let them break our contracts? How many more pensions do we give up? How much more do we give them in wages and benefits, and healthcare benefits that are ridiculous! Dave says we are average with the healthcare we pay! Another lie, says we have it better than LUV, another lie! When talking to a LUV rep recently and told her what we pay in healthcare costs she couldn’t believe it, yet Dave says we have it better!

Lies lies and more lies is all we hear from this bunch, and STILL posters come on here begging us to accept whatever they want and calling us stupid and clueless if we refuse to agree!

Let the chips fall where they may. I know for sure in maintenance after the stunt they pulled stealing our work after making promises not to, not one mechanic I know is willing to even listen to this management team, period!

It's a disgrace what they pulled, we even have powerful people in government saying the same thing. I honestly feel sorry for the poor souls who feel they must grovel in the mud and roll over for this sorry excuse of a management team we have in place at this once great place to work.

 

[ClueByFour]

Well, with the Chicago-based company apparently now in an internal crisis mode, unable to provide a business plan and plan of reorganization (POR) to the court again, as well as reportedly going to miss its DIP targets for the next two months, it may not matter if the company has an exclusive right to file its POR.

Is there a source for United missing it's DIP numbers? Or being in "crisis mode?"

Cite one, or at least have the courtesy to preface such things with "I think" the next time.

 

[Fly]

Question for anyone. When I pull up USAviation, this is where my favorites leads:
USAviation

I don't go to a specific airline board.....they are all just there together...most recent posting at the top. Do others just go to one airline, or do you go to a board like this? I ask because it keeps getting thrown out there that we are canvassing the US board (but we aren't....well, I'm not anyway) Anyway, I hope this explains why I respond to questions pertaining to UAL that are posted on US boards.

 

[ktflyhome]

Fly: From what I can tell on this all of the forums come up and you have a choice of where to go. A little red flag by each forum shows what is "hot" today or at least of current posts on them. I always click on to USAirways myself, but I have surfed the others as well. I don't think there is any law that says you can't go to other threads and discuss things. I may be wrong though. It seems USAirways is always the hottest. Guess we have nothing better to do.

 

[scot]

It depends on what page you bookmarked as your favorite. If you want to start from the main forums page you can bookmark THIS PAGE and it will let you see everything so you can just pick and choose what you want to see. You can also bookmark the specific forum if you are only interested in one, but why do that? You wouldnt have as much fun. Once again, just so EVERYONE knows, anyone is allowed to post in any forum, any time, as long as they follow the rules of the board. It doesnt matter to USAviation who posts where. It only seems to bother a couple of posters on the board.

 

[High Iron]

Yes, yes it does. Just whom do you blame? Your employee groups? The employees don't make the business decisions, the management team/BOD do. Blame the decision makers.



That is incorrect. Wall Street has more than just a few problems with USAirways management. The decisions, or rather the lack thereof, upon leaving bankruptcy with the lackluster performance in any positive direction has been the deciding factor(s) for the Wall Street community.



You've overused this particular catch phrase without the knowledge base that goes along with it.

USfliboi - I've spent the better part of my life in running a business and sharing my life with a Wall Street player. You are completely unaware of anything remotely related to Wall Street or Business 101.

Best of Luck
Lark

If you run a buisness oppisite of the way i was referring too, sounds like you will be following US! Buisness 101 that catch phrase you referred to is buisness at its core. No one is saying your employees morale doesnt play a huge role , it does. In our case its more than a huge role however, the base isnt there . You cant expect a management who tied itself up in the past with baggage concerning its unions. Whats amazing here is a couple of people cant seperate the fact that you can have wonderful employees who are so willing to support yet have corperate unions who see it a different way . I DO NOT WISH TO DEBATE ON MOST ISSUES, BUT HAVE SIT BACK FOR A LONG TIME UNTILL RECENTLY . i M SICK OF SEEING FURTHER DAMAGE DONE BY A COUPLE OF POSTERS ON HERE We have great employees and the majority if with a choice would choose not to pay their unions dues today simply because their leaders are out of touch with todays reality.

Buisness 101 that catch phrase you referred to is buisness at its core

It's business at its core, ( exactly what I have said when I de-spinned your use of it several weeks ago... I guess plagiarization is flattery in this case ) but you are ( again ) using the term in it's broadest vaguest sense as a catch-all. In this case, you are distorting the term to support further subsidization ( via more cuts ) of a hidebound management's detirmination to continue with the same old way of doing business. Talk about inertia. The increased revenue resulting from a more shrewd operating/business model is "business 101" as well.

I DO NOT WISH TO DEBATE ON MOST ISSUES

I'll say! You seem to prefer the "hit and run" style, or to talk right past whomever you're "debating" by answering with quippy one-liners or answers that are at a 45-degree angle to the question.

BUT HAVE SIT BACK FOR A LONG TIME UNTILL RECENTLY . i M SICK OF SEEING FURTHER DAMAGE DONE BY A COUPLE OF POSTERS ON HERE

Well well. Getting angry is what it takes to finally capitalize words, though you need only do so when beginning a sentence.... ( My snappy one-liner )

Actually, I suspect what you're really sick of is how the "party line" can be dissected and rebutted. Dang public internet! Was much better when the companies alone could mold public view through the korporate ( sic ) media, and rebutted 3 days later in the op eds...if you were lucky.

Wonder how much damage was done by a "couple of posters" ( laughing out loud! ) by posting a steady stream of doom & gloom in cookie-cutter fashion?...many of them thread starters.

What is VERY obvious however, is the air of increasingly shrill desperation to the posts of you and your ilk...and a touch of fanatacism to boot. Seeing the utter failure of your comments to resonate, much less carry the day, you and your ilk redouble your efforts...which in turn makes you look even more desperate...leading to even more inflammatory rhetoric...and so on, and so on.

I guess that "keep quiet" booklet I've heard about didn't stem the tide of "naysayers"...Though the timing was perfect....too perfect, if you know what I mean.

 

[TheLarkAscending]

If you run a buisness oppisite of the way i was referring too, sounds like you will be following US! Buisness 101 that catch phrase you referred to is buisness at its core. No one is saying your employees morale doesnt play a huge role , it does. In our case its more than a huge role however, the base isnt there . You cant expect a management who tied itself up in the past with baggage concerning its unions. Whats amazing here is a couple of people cant seperate the fact that you can have wonderful employees who are so willing to support yet have corperate unions who see it a different way . I DO NOT WISH TO DEBATE ON MOST ISSUES, BUT HAVE SIT BACK FOR A LONG TIME UNTILL RECENTLY . i M SICK OF SEEING FURTHER DAMAGE DONE BY A COUPLE OF POSTERS ON HERE We have great employees and the majority if with a choice would choose not to pay their unions dues today simply because their leaders are out of touch with todays reality.

It appears that you have proven all of my original points simply through this most recent reply. I stand by my original statements.

 

[usfliboi]

High Iron! Not sure what your rattling on about and i ll only say If you understood BUISNESS 101 Your OPINION WOULD B E DIFFERENT> PLAIN SIMPLE BUISNESS 101 (all CAPS) That tells me some dont have a clue but hey ITS the USA far less smarter have made a million ! By the way the stealth approach is always better tha our pres "shock and aww" I choose to avoid some posters that may not comprehend the basics and who choose to disagree for the sake of doing it or better yet bitterness hatred and plain out ole "just aint gonna get it"

 

[usfliboi]

It appears that you have proven all of my original points simply through this most recent reply. I stand by my original statements.

Im so glad you do and you should I havent changed mine.

 

[756pro]

The only ones that need counseling are the management team members who believe that screwing people with lies and doing it again and again into infinity without flinching is justified and not wrong. These actions shows such people lack souls and can toss people aside like they are not real, insignificant and just in the way. Telling anyone not to be emotional when you just lied to them and cost them their very livelihoods not only not shows lack of compassion, but is a sign of insanity itself, with insanity not being too strong a term. When people can justify the actions this management has pulled and then try and turn it around by telling the parties affected that they and not management are the ones who are not mentally healthy, that in itself shows the truly ruthless pure insanity of this management team. These are the exact reasons why all of the unions have called for the removal of this team.

ALPA might be willing to play ball with them only because six figure incomes are at risk and impossible to replace for most pilots. This is not the case for every other labor group where the reality is this job is no longer the end all of jobs given the cuts we have sustained.

What I am saying here is not “sticking ones heads in the sand“, and as often quoted by this team, REALITY! “Tough decisions and not being cowards†means to this management team carving people’s lives up in the name of business when in reality they do this because there is no real vision and zero leadership at U. “It’s a no brainier†means it’s the easy way of the options available for people who are clueless on how to run a company. “Its a matter of stepping up to the plate and doing what ya gotta do†is another term for you must sacrifice yourselves so I can become rich while you are out in the street.

Employees are on to your two management types, they see the light and realize giving any more will only return the same old results and they will be jobless either way. This is why you see people saying and crying the slogan, “full pay till the last day“.

This may seem insane to you the management types because you and not the employees have more to lose; we as employees will not become instant millionaires like management will. And remember, management and not labor are the ones who caused this reality, a reality that we as labor were force fed. You as management will reap what you have sown and if we are lucky you will choke to death on it.