Machinsts Union Files Claims Against Us

[mweiss]

...until someone has the stones to change the demand curve world-wide.

[post="253151"][/post]​

That will take an awful lot more than "stones."

 

[BoeingBoy]

At most, you might get the difference between what PBGC gives and what was originally funded. I have a feeling the company will find a way to reduce or eliminate it, especially if the cash burn is not reduced.

[post="253151"][/post]​

If BK1 is any guide, the PBGC will get "new" stock - that's how the unsecured creditors claims were settled.

If I remember correctly, the IAM claims will have somewhat higher status than the strictly unsecured claims like the PBGC's. I think the IAM claims are called "administrative claims", though someone better versed in BK law would have to explain the difference.

Like I said before, to me it's a case of "file nothing and be sure of getting nothing or file a claim and maybe get something" (even if it's just "new" stock.

Jim

 

[markkus757]

PBGC will not get stock, that is not a form of colateral they receive(maybe chickens might be more welcome). The only government agency that could get stock would be the ATSB. I don't think they are interested in giving away third chances. You're also assuming that the judge, who at this point has done what's best for people like GECAS, is going to entertain this. You're right, they have nothing to lose. But, I still haven't seen enough of a reason for the judge to approve this. You act as if US has not done what the judge has wanted during the process. They are golden in the eyes of the court. He does not care whether management can run the airline effectively, he will deal with whoever is in charge. The trick is to change that aspect of the argument if you want to alter the process towards your direction. By the way, PBGC will get your tax money to settle the situation, not stock.

 

[700UW]

The PBGC operates off of fees for the insurance that companies pay to them each month to ensure the pensions, not tax dollars.

Money PBGC Takes In and Pays Out
PBGC is not funded by general tax revenues. PBGC collects insurance premiums from employers that sponsor insured pension plans, earns money from investments and receives funds from pension plans it takes over. PBGC pays monthly retirement benefits, up to a guaranteed maximum, to about 518,000 retirees in 3,479 pension plans that ended. Including those who have not yet retired and participants in multiemployer plans receiving financial assistance, PBGC is responsible for the current and future pensions of about 1,061,000 people.

 

[BoeingBoy]

PBGC will not get stock, that is not a form of colateral they receive(maybe chickens might be more welcome).

[post="253172"][/post]​

I have no idea what they will get this time (or even if they'll file a claim, though I presume they will). But that is exactly what they got last time (along with the other unsecured creditors). You have to remember that whatever they get is not collateral, since they aren't loaning U anything. They (and the other unsecured creditors) are getting a settlement on their claim. Coming out of BK1, that settlement was about 10% of the "new" stock, prorated among the unsecured creditors by the size of their individual claims.

That's why I always found it ironic that the company spent money fighting the size of the PBGC claim. The difference was never how much money the company would pay out (zero), it was only how much of 10% of the "new" stock the PBGC would get relative to the other unsecured creditors.

In the longer run, you're probably right about the taxpayers bailing out the PBGC.

Jim

 

[markkus757]

700, you are correct in the short term. But, as with Social Security in about 20 years, once the PBGC has more money leaving than coming in, the government will have to prop it up with our tax money. They don't run out of money and throw up their hands and say: sorry we're closed, we ran out." There is a growing trend by large corporations in this country to dump pensions for more affordable retirement plans. The current and near future group of retirees is putting a deadly strain on pensions of any kind in this country. I'm not saying that it's right, just stating the facts. Members of the "insurance" payers are reducing every year, forcing the remaining particpants in the PBGC to pay larger fees for membership. Does this sound like something that is going to succeed in your eyes over the long run? Would you like to buy oceanfront property in Iowa?