Maa (republic)

[Rico]

EMBpilot...

Selecting a JFJ position with a JFJ carrier like your own meant no senority, reserve status, and a persistant attitude presented by your pilot group towards those they mistakenly assume have co-opted "Their" flying...

Using that as some supposed "justification" as to your indignation towardss MDA pilots coming to someplace they were "too good for" beforehand is stupid. Because those that decided to go or not go to CHQ vs. MDA did so based on their own personal situation/timing. ANY JFJ pilot would have preferred MDA over CHQ if they could have waited for it because MDA was NOT using the stupid JFJ setup.

Are you saying anyone should have picked sitting E-145 reserve at CHQ rather than being a E-170 line holder at MDA...? Yeah, right...

And in case you have not noticed, this situation is DIFFERENT. Republic is buying the operation, meaning that there is NO CHOICE involved for any of us at MDA. If we desire to remain with the operation, we must travel to Republic.

WHAT OUR ISSUE is that MDA was NOT a JFJ carrier, and it WAS NEVER MEANT to become one. Meaning if some company bought a few of our aircraft, then that company would be forced to offer JFJ positions for those aircraft just like the ERJ's and CRJ's Mainline ALPA allowed you to fly. BUT, if that same company bought ALL of MDA, then they must follow established senority intregration/merger procedures.

Your Company has bought everything and anything to do with MDA, from every aircraft we have to manuals to simulators to parts... Since they bought everything to do with MDA, it is obvious that they bought full control of the company as well.

SO that means that we, the MDA pilots should have every expectation of being treated properly, not as "new hires", not as "JFJ pilots", and NOT as some carpetbaggers arriving on your doorstep looking for a handout. We expect our contract at mainline to be followed/enforced.

Why is that so hard for people to understand...?

 

[diogenes]

We expect our contract at mainline to be followed/enforced.

Why is that so hard for people to understand...?

[post="281851"][/post]​

CCY doesn't seem to understand it, and look where it's got them.

After reading the Q&A, it was deja vue - only U can create such confusion amongst the ranks.

 

[ringmaruf]

CCY doesn't seem to understand it, and look where it's got them.

[post="281861"][/post]​

They absolutely understand it. They just choose to ignore it.

 

[USA320Pilot]

700UW:

The MDA - Republic Q&A was sent out via email in a Word document so it could be cut and paste and forwarded. If ALPA does not want information released it's placed on the website in a PDF format.

I received the document via email from MEC Rep. in Word, which permits me to forward the information.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[ClueByFour]

700UW:

The MDA - Republic Q&A was sent out via email in a Word document so it could be cut and paste and forwarded. If ALPA does not want information released it's placed on the website in a PDF format.

I received the document via email from MEC Rep. in Word, which permits me to forward the information.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="281875"][/post]​

All the dues that ALPA collects, and that's the system? One can copy and paste from a PDF--even the protected variety.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I guess I'll have to pay closer attention to any code-a-phone messages I post. Some of them are in PDF format. Guess it's ok to read those on the ALPA public page, just not to dissiminate them.....

Jim

 

[700UW]

It was posted in a PILOTS ONLY portion of the web page, not for public use.

And it was E-mailed to MDA pilots, not Mainline. And does your MEC buddy know you are posting his e-mails on a public internet page?

 

[Mtnman928]

700UW:

The MDA - Republic Q&A was sent out via email in a Word document so it could be cut and paste and forwarded. If ALPA does not want information released it's placed on the website in a PDF format.

I received the document via email from MEC Rep. in Word, which permits me to forward the information.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="281875"][/post]​

Selective dissemination

 

[EmbPilot]

EMBpilot...

Selecting a JFJ position with a JFJ carrier like your own meant no senority, reserve status, and a persistant attitude presented by your pilot group towards those they mistakenly assume have co-opted "Their" flying...

Using that as some supposed "justification" as to your indignation towardss MDA pilots coming to someplace they were "too good for" beforehand is stupid. Because those that decided to go or not go to CHQ vs. MDA did so based on their own personal situation/timing. ANY JFJ pilot would have preferred MDA over CHQ if they could have waited for it because MDA was NOT using the stupid JFJ setup.

Are you saying anyone should have picked sitting E-145 reserve at CHQ rather than being a E-170 line holder at MDA...? Yeah, right...

And in case you have not noticed, this situation is DIFFERENT. Republic is buying the operation, meaning that there is NO CHOICE involved for any of us at MDA. If we desire to remain with the operation, we must travel to Republic.

WHAT OUR ISSUE is that MDA was NOT a JFJ carrier, and it WAS NEVER MEANT to become one. Meaning if some company bought a few of our aircraft, then that company would be forced to offer JFJ positions for those aircraft just like the ERJ's and CRJ's Mainline ALPA allowed you to fly. BUT, if that same company bought ALL of MDA, then they must follow established senority intregration/merger procedures.

Your Company has bought everything and anything to do with MDA, from every aircraft we have to manuals to simulators to parts...  Since they bought everything to do with MDA, it is obvious that they bought full control of the company as well.

SO that means that we, the MDA pilots should have every expectation of being treated properly, not as "new hires", not as "JFJ pilots", and NOT as some carpetbaggers arriving on your doorstep looking for a handout. We expect our contract at mainline to be followed/enforced.

Why is that so hard for people to understand...?

[post="281851"][/post]​

REP/CHQ MEC was ready to set down and work this out, but MDA MEC came in making demands with no intention of hearing any other side. That type attitude is what has brought about the sour feelings felt by REP/CHQ pilots.

REP/CHQ seem to have several JFJ pilots on property that enjoy working here. Why did they not jump ship to go to MDA? I know of several of them with US Airways 1989 seniority. Wow, they actually like working here... imagine that!

Isn't MDA on the US Airways certificate? If so, how did Republic buy "Full Control" REP/CHQ did not purchase US Airways... full control means the certificate not just parts of it. Its the same as if someone bought all US Airways 737-300's. They are simply buying an aircraft type, not the whole company. Was MetroJet its own company? No, just a name placed on a bunch of aircraft. After MetroJet stopped operating, the aircraft became US Airways again. Same situation at MDA except it was a new aircraft type and new pay scales (which would have been the time to stand up and say NO to low wages) An easy cure to all of this would have been if US Airways had set MDA as its own certificate, then you would have a valid argument. But that is now not even an option.

As far as MDA not being a JFJ carrier, frankly REP/CHQ pilots are not that excited about that idea either. When CHQ voted in the JFJ agreement, it was for E145's. So, the JFJ with E170 is more a windfall for furloughed pilots then a planned operational move. REP/CHQ pilots are going along with the JFJ agreement (for now). once the quota for JFJ aicraft has been met, its a new ballgame.

In closing frankly i'm amazed to see so much fight over this. US Airways pilots have been amazingly good and bending over to sell out (either in wages or jr. pilots) so MDA is where the camel's back is broken? Simply amazing!

 

[Swaayze]

As far as MDA not being a JFJ carrier, frankly REP/CHQ pilots are not that excited about that idea either. When CHQ voted in the JFJ agreement, it was for E145's. So, the JFJ with E170 is more a windfall for furloughed pilots then a planned operational move. REP/CHQ pilots are going along with the JFJ agreement (for now). once the quota for JFJ aicraft has been met, its a new ballgame.

[post="282383"][/post]​

You have to be kidding. If CHQ/REP etc. did not participate in J4J then you wouldn't be receiving 28 more 170s. 50% J4J is the very least required to fly these under U's code. I'm sure that I'm biased (furloughed U but not a J4J or MDA participant, fwiw) but it sure seems to me that this is a change of control of MDA (semantics aside, this "Embraer Division" of mainline is cleary what LOA 91 refers to as MidAtlantic).

 

[ringmaruf]

Its the same as if someone bought all US Airways 737-300's. They are simply buying an aircraft type, not the whole company.

[post="282383"][/post]​

Until they just gave it up, US ALPA had fragmentation protections for exactly that sort of thing.

 

[EmbPilot]

You have to be kidding. If CHQ/REP etc. did not participate in J4J then you wouldn't be receiving 28 more 170s. 50% J4J is the very least required to fly these under U's code.

[post="282419"][/post]​

So, what is going to happen to the JFJ guys at MESA when they stop flying for U ?

Is Air Wisconsin going to provide JFJ flying?

 

[the turtle]

So, what is going to happen to the JFJ guys at MESA when they stop flying for U ?

Is Air Wisconsin going to provide JFJ flying?

[post="282487"][/post]​

J4J pilots who chose to stay at Mesa will hold any position systemwide that their Mesa seniority will hold. Currently, that is CRJ FO. However, IMHO they'll be back in the left seat within a year, as the jr. CRJ CA is in the low 900's out of 1500 pilots.

 

[Light Years]

After MetroJet stopped operating, the aircraft became US Airways again. Same

[post="282383"][/post]​

Actually, the MetroJet fleet was parked. 737-200s have not been part of the mainline fleet since 2000. The entire MetroJet fleet was parked in 2001.

 

[Rico]

REP/CHQ MEC was ready to set down and work this out, but MDA MEC came in making demands with no intention of hearing any other side. That type attitude is what has brought about the sour feelings felt by REP/CHQ pilots.

Gimmie a break, the fact of the matter is that your IBT guys were all set to agree to let us have our flying in our own planes and our senority (on those 28 planes) as long as your guys got all of the growth USX aircraft (read:E-190's) for yourselves and yourselves alone. That would be fine with us except that your union is now unsure of how many (and when) additional USX aircraft would be brought on, and still demand to "get something" for themselves before leaving the MDA pilots with what we already have. (and you do not)

We do not want to be above any CHQ or Shuttle America pilots, we just want a nice tall fence that allows us to stay the way we are, in the order we are in, on the planes and flying we already have without taking ANYTHING away from your pilots. Fly your UAX or DALConn flying all you want... Even take all of the new USX flying that comes, but what is ours now should stay ours from here on...

What else would you expect from any other kind of merger/acquisition. No, you guys want to put half our pilots, and all our Flight attendants on the street just so you can upgrade out of the E-145 into the planes WE FLY today. Nice <_<

So stuff it with your crap about MDA being greedy or demanding kid. Take a good look in the mirror before pointing fingers.

REP/CHQ seem to have several JFJ pilots on property that enjoy working here. Why did they not jump ship to go to MDA? I know of several of them with US Airways 1989 seniority. Wow, they actually like working here... imagine that!

You do not seem to have a clue about how JFJ works, the MDA positions were not avail. for those pilots to bid (that were already at CHQ) until they completed their commitment to CHQ, and in the case of other JFJ carriers like Mesa, those APL pilots were held back even still from bidding MDA positions.

Once again, NO ONE would rather hold a reserve E-145 Captain or F/O position at CHQ, over being a line holder Captain or F/O at MDA... But they never had the chance to do so if they were already stuck at CHQ or Mesa.

Your reference to guys "picking" CHQ over MDA is stupid anyways, it has nothing to do with what is going on right now, other that you using it as some form of "moral justification" for your position becuase of the supposed "insult" of MDA pilots choosing MDA rather than CHQ in the past.

Reality is, Most of the MDA pilots never had the ability to go JFJ at CHQ because they were not on the APL at the time. And after MDA was up and running it was (and still is) a superior choice over ANY of the JFJ positions.

Isn't MDA on the US Airways certificate? If so, how did Republic buy "Full Control" REP/CHQ did not purchase US Airways... full control means the certificate not just parts of it. Its the same as if someone bought all US Airways 737-300's. They are simply buying an aircraft type, not the whole company. Was MetroJet its own company? No, just a name placed on a bunch of aircraft. After MetroJet stopped operating, the aircraft became US Airways again. Same situation at MDA except it was a new aircraft type and new pay scales (which would have been the time to stand up and say NO to low wages) An easy cure to all of this would have been if US Airways had set MDA as its own certificate, then you would have a valid argument. But that is now not even an option.

Yawn...

Trust me, I have argued and won this point with people a lot smarter and savvy than you pal, and at this point it really does not matter.

Why...?

Because now it is a open grievence, and IMO we at MDA stand a far better chance in front of an arbitrator than continuing to try and work things out. If the best your people and our company are willing to offer us is JFJ protocal, and 50% of all current (and future) Republic JFJ jobs, then what do we have to lose...?

At a min, if the arbitrator weighs in 100% on the company's side, then we still get that much (JFJ). But if our argument holds any water (and everyone knows it does), then we stand to get much closer to what we would get if this were properly considered a "change of control" in any decision by an arbitrator.

As far as MDA not being a JFJ carrier, frankly REP/CHQ pilots are not that excited about that idea either. When CHQ voted in the JFJ agreement, it was for E145's. So, the JFJ with E170 is more a windfall for furloughed pilots then a planned operational move. REP/CHQ pilots are going along with the JFJ agreement (for now). once the quota for JFJ aicraft has been met, its a new ballgame.

BTW, half those positions in those CHQ USX E-145's belong to us too pal. And that includes backfilled positions left open by attrition or never filled. If we cannot keep all of our jobs in the E-170, then we will come looking for those positions we are owed in your remaining USX E-145's. You might want to think about that before being in such a hurry to kick us out of our current jobs.

Those E-145s mighht have been bought by your company, but paid for and provided flying by mine. You find someone else to pay the leases on and fill the seats of those jets elsewhere (or better yet, on your own like Indy Air, see how successful you would be), then feel free to cop an attitude. But until then just count yourself lucky that you got the chance to fly a shiny new E-145 rather than the J-32 and Saab 340's that your company was stuck with beforehand.

But the MDA E-170's are NOT growth aircraft and NOT new aircraft, they are a functioning part of US Airways. You buy those aircraft and repaint them to fly em elsewhere, then help yourself to them no strings attached... But if you intend to buy the FLYING, in terms of successorship, you get the "strings attached"... And in the same manner that the Shuttle America Pilots came along with the purchase of Shuttle America... The MDA pilots come along with the purchase of MDA

Your wanting anything else is purley selfish and an attempt to set aside another AFL-CIO union's established senority for your own personal gain.

BTW, your company is NOT making this investment just to provide you with a upgrade pal, they are only doing this to increase their profits and increase their market share in providing feed for major airlines. That's it... If they are forced to have the MDA pilots fly em (at our cheaper 1st/2nd yr. longevity rather than your own higher CHQ Date of Hire) then they will not really care as long as they can still make a buck.

In closing frankly i'm amazed to see so much fight over this. US Airways pilots have been amazingly good and bending over to sell out (either in wages or jr. pilots) so MDA is where the camel's back is broken? Simply amazing!

Yeah, it is where the camels back has broken. Sorry your "easy ride" at the expense of the US Airways (and AAL, DAL, and UAL) pilots is getting disrupted for a change. Your insult towards our pilot group extends to all those others too. Someday you might look back upon all that has been going on in the industry nowadays, and realize who were the real victims, and who were the real vultures in al this... But by then it will be too late.

You should thank the US Airways pilots for their willingness to even allow their scope to be further watered down to allow you to fly any E-Jets, let alone the ONLY carrier that will allow you to operate the E-190.

But no, you would rather insult us, nice. I think 700UW said it best... Karma



Like I said before, we have reached the point where we have nothing left to lose.