M & R Vote For A UNION.

[swamt]

All in numbers for SWA. 12 year mech working graves. 38.29 base, 1.30 long (12 yrs), 4.00 lic prem (2), .63 shift diff, total 44.52. The only thing you can add to this is another 2.00 for a third lic, but we will not be paid for third lic unless FAA requires us to have third lic. Currently they do not, so paid for 2 lic. Current contract became amendable AUG 16th 2012. Looks like a full blown sec 6 going over each and every article in the contract, plus the nego team has to add language for the 4 new groups that came into AMFA. AMFA and the company have set dates thru the end of the year, it's going to be awhile. I will still say that UPS and teamsters will have their new contract done when their current contract becomes amendable in NOV 2013. UPS will have a new contract before we will. Which is fine as we will have a new comparosome to use just like our dispatchers did...

 

[TRAVIS]

All the unions outsource MX work, and that is what they use as a Negotiation’s Chip to get the wage’s up at each Airline. This does not change anything on the ramp boys as the aircraft come and go no matter if outsourced or not, only in MX who take the loss of jobs to support the ramp pay and hold the AMT’s back in wages because the union uses outsourcing to let the ramp hold on to the shirt tails of AMT’s to get pay higher. This may not look good coming from a union man but you have a person that has to remember a 3 letter city code, 4 number flight and can tell time makes 3 or $4.00 less than a AMT with all the responsibilities required of the AMT. The ramp and AMT’s should never have the same union just like the Pilots. Thanks for the Pay info. Guess I will see what AA does, looks like a fun ride.

 

[700UW]

Unions dont outsource work, companies do, unions permit outsourcing in their CBAs, it took a CBA Abrogation in court for US to outsource work.

Maintenance doesnt subsidize ramp pay, that is an elitist attitude.

There is strength in numbers, how did AMFA do alone at NW and AS, they got their butts handed to them.

You were ibt at HP and the ramp was TWU and you were still lowly paid and all your checks outsourced, how did that work out for you?

 

[robbedagain]

DID hp outsource all of their ramp and m&r everywhere except the hubs or even in the hubs?

 

[700UW]

HP outsourced all their heavy mtc, and did have vendors do mtc work at outstations.

 

[robbedagain]

THANK YOU do you know if they outsourced the ramp in my station we have about 4 ex hp agents all on the inside i dont know if they kept the inside mainline at the time but it sounds like they did

 

[TRAVIS]

Unions dont outsource work, companies do, unions permit outsourcing in their CBAs, it took a CBA Abrogation in court for US to outsource work.

Maintenance doesnt subsidize ramp pay, that is an elitist attitude.

There is strength in numbers, how did AMFA do alone at NW and AS, they got their butts handed to them.

You were ibt at HP and the ramp was TWU and you were still lowly paid and all your checks outsourced, how did that work out for you?

You said: (Unions don’t outsource work, companies do, unions permit outsourcing in their CBAs, it took a CBA Abrogation in court for US to outsource work.) You are right and what did US (IAM) permit and use in the Transition Agreement as a Negotiation Chip? The answer is outsourcing of US C-CHECKS and more.

You said: (Maintenance doesn’t subsidize ramp pay that is an elitist attitude.) We all know the Back Door Deals, Just like the IAM and HP (AWA) pre- merger Talks and now the USAir and AA Union talks. Why do you think the IAM is so upset this time? The shoe is on the other foot this time.
You said: (There is strength in numbers, how did AMFA do alone at NW and AS, they got their butts handed to them.) Non-Union Delta had all the cards in that mess to control the merger of NW. They did not want a union on property. No union has a chance against a larger and non-union Airline if the Members and Company do not want a union.

You said: (You were ibt at HP and the ramp was TWU and you were still lowly paid and all your checks outsourced, how did that work out for you?) As you said I got the (IAM crappiest bankruptcy CBA.) And that was used to make a Transition Agreement at the merger. And this caused AWA (WEST) to lose benefits. Also slowly lose jobs at west outstations and one hub. And as far as pay .34 cents less lowly pay big deal. The thing that hurt was this IAM CBA that we still have today when we had at the west had a CBA that was amendable at the time of the AWA/US merger Years ago. Have a nice one.

 

[700UW]

The IAM brought more work in-house with the transition agreement, all your checks above a C and most of your C-checks were outsourced on the west.

No C-checks on the East were outsourced.

You never worked under the CBA that was abrogated, you worked under the former hp/ibt cba until the transition agreement was negotiated which gave you improvements in pay, vacation, holidays and scope.

The TA protects your hangar at PHX which never had protections before, as well as PIT and CLT heavy. No CBA prevents the company from downsizing line stations, but the IAM CBA has protected stations for the line, your former ibt CBA didnt have that, now did it? What happened at CMH?

I know for a fact 141(ramp) and 142(mechanic and related) didnt share negotiations, didnt even negotiate with the some company reps. Mechanics didnt take a cut to save ramp and vice versa.

So keep trying, NW kicked AMFA to the curb, as well as AS closed all their heavy mtc in OAK laying off 340 AS Mechanic and Related and AMFA couldnt stop them.

At CO ibt leads the industry in outsourcing and picked up the same at UA.

Explain this one, how is the ibt letting UA layoff mechanics and CO is hiring off the street?

Thats a good union, not!

How is that half the SFO mechanic and related are part of the LAX local and not SFO? Thats representations, not!

Keep trying.

 

[robbedagain]

i thought for AS that was SEA their largest hub i believe

 

[blue collar]

700, I didn't think you needed to continue to sell IAM contracts. Is this pos better than the bankruptcy contract? Sure, but still bottom of the barrel for pay. I know it's hard to negotiate with a company who doesn't want to give anything, but the IAM isn't the hard as nails union that you make them out to be either.

 

[700UW]

i thought for AS that was SEA their largest hub i believe

That was the ramp, and the IAM and the IAM won the arbitration case in the SEA outsourcing.

What I was talking about was AS closed there OAK overhaul base and laidoff 340 AMFA represented employees.

 

[robbedagain]

oh ok thanks i knew that as did outsource sea but was not sure if it was mtr or ramp thanks agaon

 

[swamt]

I see AMFA is still winning the poll even over hear at the US threads. What it really shows is that more folks are willing to go without a union than have the teamsters or the TWU represent them. Now I can see why the TWU and IAM is trying to strike a "behind closed door deals" to represent certain groups after the merger. Which I really don't think they can do this with out the memberships vote, someone (one of the two unions) will get sued if the memberships have no say so in their representation.

 

[TRAVIS]

The IAM brought more work in-house with the transition agreement, all your checks above a C and most of your C-checks were outsourced on the west.

No C-checks on the East were outsourced.

You never worked under the CBA that was abrogated, you worked under the former hp/ibt cba until the transition agreement was negotiated which gave you improvements in pay, vacation, holidays and scope.

700 I know how you like the facts so here they are out of the January 31 2005 IAM contract. I said: Post #44 AWA (IBT) pre-merger (this would have been in 2005) with US. We made more per hour than USAir did pre-merger /Vacation did not change / we had unlimited sick time at full Pay per day not half pay as we do today/we lost 2 holidays at the merger/ we had a 401k plan and were in Negotiations at the time of the merger. Per the IAM January 31 2005 contract: Base pay $22.77 see page 79. Lead pay $1.00 see page 78. Lic. Pay $1.00 each A/P max $2.00 see page 59. You had NO shift pay see page 237. 4 weeks vacation after 17 yrs. See page 53. And 5 holidays see page 14. Now You Said: HP AMT's NEVER made more in pay than US, why do you keep lying again?IBT 1998 / 2003 contract. Base pay $23.35 see 20-2. Lead pay $1.00 per hour see 20-1. Lic pay $1.00 each A/P max of $2.00 see 20-1. Shift pays .32 cents Swing shift and .35 cents Graves. 4 weeks vacation after 12 yrs. See 14-1. And 7 Holidays with 2 floating total of 9. To top all this off the Contract was Amendable at the time of the merger in 2005.So as you can see AWA (IBT AMT TOP OUT $25.70) made more than US (IAM AMT TOP OUT$24.77) up to 2005 even with the contract ending in 2003. Now we all are under the April 3 2008 IAM Contract. And as you said: IAM crappiest bankruptcy CBA that we used for a Transition Agreement. Did I get the facts right or do we need to go and revote this? Me lying! Boy that’s the pot calling the kettle black. The January 31 2005 contract was so bad the IAM would not post it on line. LOL I found my book........................

 

[700UW]

Yep your lying we never had a January 2005 CBA, because the CBA was abrogated, do you know what that means?

There was a final offer in February of 2005. You dont even have your dates right.

And you still fail to explain the IBT lies and action poised to you.