M&R LBO2 Vote Predictions

[Bob Owens]

Like I said before lies, more lies, and damn lies....just my spiel

Just your "spiel", well at least you admit it.
To me the 1/7th rule had to go. There was no way to defend it anymore, how can you argue to keep it when it was agreed that DWH, the other OH facility and none of the other carriers have such a restriction, however the value of it should have been fully captured. If AA wants the rules everyone else has then they should expect to pay what everyone else pays. Thats my opinion. But I still dont see anything misleading or untruthful.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Just your "spiel", well at least you admit it.
To me the 1/7th rule had to go. There was no way to defend it anymore, how can you argue to keep it when it was agreed that DWH, the other OH facility and none of the other carriers have such a restriction, however the value of it should have been fully captured. If AA wants the rules everyone else has then they should expect to pay what everyone else pays. Thats my opinion. But I still dont see anything misleading or untruthful.

I wouldn't expect you to see the bullshet lies, because you couldn't see we were headed to bankruptcy....

 

[Bob Owens]

I wouldn't expect you to see the bullshet lies, because you couldn't see we were headed to bankruptcy....

Read Gillespies article in the ATD newsletter, the International didnt see it coming either. When has a company ever filed with over $4 billion and been their own DIP?

 

[Buster CRC]

No Plating at AFW. About 35 platers in Tulsa.

 

[DonnaU]

This fight will continue. If AA were to impose this T/A after abbrogation, and negotiations continue, then AA can keep some sense of Labor Peace, begin reducing head count, and then work on getting an agreement that can be ratified will be much easier.

Once those that are gone are no longer being used to get voting done in a certain driection, AA will have to negotiate with those of us that are left. And those are the employees that AA needs on their side to succeed.

The hard liners will be happy that this crap contract is no longer a 6 year deal. Those that want to leave can go. The heads that Local 514 are trying protect will be on the payroll. And AA starts implenting cost saving changes.

That is a simple solution and everybody wins something with future negotiations to continue.
Why is that so difficult?

AA Management has an oppurtunity here, I am just not convinced they are smart enough to see it?

Informer, you stated that AA will have to negotiate. Tell me, how do you MAKE someone negotiate with you???

 

[AC Tynker]

I am voting Yes and I think it will pass because it is better that the last offer and Abrogation will cost us even more money, I think it will be close probably around 55% but doesn't matter how close it is just as long as it passes, I have a new family and can't afford any interruptions just my particular position, I realize we are all in different situations and must do what is right for our family.

I wish the vote was over so we would know one way or the other, not knowing is stressful, to be honest i'm looking forward to 6 years of no stress so I can enjoy my family without worrying about losing everything over a very small chance of getting a little more.

You did what you felt you needed to and that is all that matters. Whether you Vote Yes or You Vote No as long as your decision comes from within that is true Integrity. If the U.S. companies were bound to keep maint. work within the U.S. then yes I would agree anyone who settled for less would be wrong but with China and South America and South of America being in the mix and the amount of people that would hit the street in Tulsa flooding the job market makes some think twice about making the stands they made in the 1930's versus trying to provide for your family. Both choices are full of speculation and armchair lawyers, judges, fortune tellers and hecklers.

 

[Bob Owens]

I am voting Yes and I think it will pass because it is better that the last offer and Abrogation will cost us even more money, I think it will be close probably around 55% but doesn't matter how close it is just as long as it passes, I have a new family and can't afford any interruptions just my particular position, I realize we are all in different situations and must do what is right for our family.

I wish the vote was over so we would know one way or the other, not knowing is stressful, to be honest i'm looking forward to 6 years of no stress so I can enjoy my family without worrying about losing everything over a very small chance of getting a little more.

"Audentes fortuna juvat".

News flash, "The sky didnt fall". We voted No and the sky didnt fall as the hired "experts" had told us it would, in fact the company requested an extension on the Judges decision and has since lowered the "Ask" not just once, but twice.

How I read your post is that you voted out of fear. Losing everything? Really? Such as? The only thing that goes away is the contract, and if it passes most of what you want a contract for will be gone anyway.

Think about it, your bidding rules will be written by management, your OT rules will be written by management, your field trip rules will be written by management. You will get less paid time off than anyone in the industry, even the Non-union people without a contract, and you will be paid less than anyone in the industry. So what exactly do you think you will be saving? Job Security? You just voted it out of the contract!! 35% outsourcing is not an ironclad figure, read the language and ask yourself "how has the company exploited deficient vague language in the past?" Even with the 35% "cap" more than half of the jobs in OH can be outsourced with this language, remember its "spend" not "Jobs", so if they can find a place to do MD-80 airframes in Central America (and you just gave them six years to find them) and keep the landing gears and engines in house they can ship out a lot higher percentage of heads vs spend. Which drives more heads and which would drive greater savings, Airframe work or engines and landing gears? Which work consumes more cost as far as parts, engines or airframes?

So what exactly are you afraid of losing and how do you figure that Voting yes will protect you from losing it?

Dont be pushed into saying Yes to something that you know is bad because of their threats that if you dont they will make it worse, just say NO, its not acceptable, that you are worth every bit as much as the guys at UAL and if they want a deal then thats what they need to bring back. This offer is an insult and its worse than what they offered everyone else in the company, on top of that they included the Bootlicker letter that contractually obliges the Union to strive to make AA number one in class in exchange for AA making us dead last in class, it makes the treaty of Versailles look magnanimous.

One thing you must remember, we didnt do anything wrong here, we dont deserve to be punished. Bankruptcy isnt something that happened to AA, this was a deliberate, calculated move to try and do exactly what it has done to you, make you question your worth and accept much less than what it is. Overspin and High spin steel frequently cite that I've said that bankruptcy is a scam, well it is, especially in this case , where an airline with $5 billion in cash and $25 billion in revenue, that has already has the lowest AMT pay rates in the industry gets to gut whats left of the contract and have their workers accept bottom of the industry, by far, for six more years.

This deal was ramrodded in front of you by Fleet service Clerks, TitleII mechanics and the International. The FSCs will remain near the Top of the Industry among their peers in the industry (as a whole this industry treats Facilities mechanics poorly and our guys are not at the bottom like us) and of course the International just wants to get their money back so they wont have to do without raises or turn their dues paid for leased cars back in. All the A&Ps in the room except Charlie Meyer from STL, a guy well into retirement age, voted against bringing this back.

Just think about it, let your course in life be determined by fear and end up with what you feared or just say NO, "I'm worth more, I expect more, and I will not settle for less". "Audentes Fortuna juvat", (Fortune favors the bold)

 

[Bob Owens]

Informer, you stated that AA will have to negotiate. Tell me, how do you MAKE someone negotiate with you???

Demanding to be released by the NMB is a start.

 

[dfw gen]

High speed steel get back in the bus and drink your kool-aid. You are eaten up with it. Do you gargle with the kool-aid?

 

[TWU informer]

Informer, you stated that AA will have to negotiate. Tell me, how do you MAKE someone negotiate with you???

Openly discussing some things in a Public Forum could be misunderstood by some as violating Federal Law and the Status Quo.

You will jsut have to use your imagination, and think real hard about that one.

Maybe you can get someone outside of Local 514 to explain it to you.

 

[DonnaU]

Openly discussing some things in a Public Forum could be misunderstood by some as violating Federal Law and the Status Quo.

You will jsut have to use your imagination, and think real hard about that one.

Maybe you can get someone outside of Local 514 to explain it to you.

Informer, I still don't understand how you can force someone to talk to you. I've had to negotiate many things in my life but I've never been able to make someone continue to talk if they don't want to. There comes the time when the deal is made or you walk away from the table and look somewhere else to make a deal. If AA is done talking I cant see a way to force them to talk.

 

[TWU informer]

Informer, I still don't understand how you can force someone to talk to you. I've had to negotiate many things in my life but I've never been able to make someone continue to talk if they don't want to. There comes the time when the deal is made or you walk away from the table and look somewhere else to make a deal. If AA is done talking I cant see a way to force them to talk.

Well, I guess you should kneel and take it then. I cannot help you or discuss futher what dynamic might change their opinion.

Why are you in a Union to begin with, if you think that way?

 

[DonnaU]

Well, I guess you should kneel and take it then. I cannot help you or discuss futher what dynamic might change their opinion.

Why are you in a Union to begin with, if you think that way?

Well, I guess that by not answering my question you are agreeing with me. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. We may not be able to force AA to do any more if they don't want to.

 

[Mr Red]

Well, I guess that by not answering my question you are agreeing with me. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. We may not be able to force AA to do any more if they don't want to.

If you have to be told how it works than you must not be in the Business.
GO TROLL SOMEWHERE ELSE !

 

[DonnaU]

If you have to be told how it works than you must not be in the Business.
GO TROLL SOMEWHERE ELSE !

I know how it works. You must also agree as u have no answer.