M&R LBO2 Vote Predictions

[AA89]

I am voting Yes and I think it will pass because it is better that the last offer and Abrogation will cost us even more money, I think it will be close probably around 55% but doesn't matter how close it is just as long as it passes, I have a new family and can't afford any interruptions just my particular position, I realize we are all in different situations and must do what is right for our family.

I wish the vote was over so we would know one way or the other, not knowing is stressful, to be honest i'm looking forward to 6 years of no stress so I can enjoy my family without worrying about losing everything over a very small chance of getting a little more.

Do you call 6+ years of dwindling OH and more than likely line positions stress free? That money will never make it to your pocket if your job is eliminated.
There is no guarantee that won't lose everything anyway.
I'm guessing you have good seniority and could care less about those under you or those entering this career.

 

[Frank Szabo]

I am voting Yes and I think it will pass because it is better that the last offer and Abrogation will cost us even more money, I think it will be close probably around 55% but doesn't matter how close it is just as long as it passes, I have a new family and can't afford any interruptions just my particular position, I realize we are all in different situations and must do what is right for our family.

I wish the vote was over so we would know one way or the other, not knowing is stressful, to be honest i'm looking forward to 6 years of no stress so I can enjoy my family without worrying about losing everything over a very small chance of getting a little more.

You're in the wrong business if you want "stress free". Airlines' "management" has become contemptuous of their employees, as if we are causing the problems they create for themselves. If you really want "stress free", the only logical way is to get out of the industry, not hang around thinking things will get better - they won't. It's far cheaper for management to buy off unions while those unions are also collecting dues for their so-called "representation" than it is to pay a fair wage and benefits.

I encourage all who can do so to turn their backs on this industry, walk away with their sanity relatively intact, and find a position in another industry where their skills are welcomed and not viewed as a liability. That's what I'm doing.

If you end up getting screwed over by AMR, you have nobody but yourself to blame for it.

 

[aapitbull]

Give me 58% No and 42% yes I think the No's go up and wish I could be a fly on the wall at headquarters when Ream has to expalin it!!

 

[High Speed Steel]

I'll Bite

• No job security. ... There is no guarantee that you will have a job by voting for this offer.--Article 42 is gone.
  
  ARTICLE 42 – JOB SECURITY
  
  ARTICLE 42: INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK

There is even less of a guarantee you will have a job if you vote against this TA, Besides I have seen more folks lose their jobs to company rule violations, violations of the PPC and ACP than any who may have lost their jobs in any other fashion. I think your making a mountain out of a molehill because there are still protections built into the agreement to keep folks employed, The LOA 1.4 speaks to the APA flying aircraft with more than 79 seats to become work within the scope of the TWU/AA agreement...So the comment in the ad is misleading to the loss of Article 42....

• RIF (reductions in force), overtime, field trip rules and gain share to be written after you vote.
  
  ATTACHMENT 6.1 – AGREEMENT TO ESTABLISH OVERTIME RULES
  Attachment 4.3- Process Improvement - Line Employee Gain Sharing Plan TBD
  ATTACHMENT 26.1 FIELD TRIP GUIDELINES TBD

The RIF is to be done virtually, this is a good thing as far as I'm concerned...

• 1/7 "weekends off" rule eliminated without alternative options discussed.
  
  The following rules will apply to the Tulsa, AFW and MCI Maintenance Bases employees, excluding Line Maintenance at Tulsa, and apply only with reference to the assignment of employees to work schedules that include Saturday and/or Sunday.
  
  (1) Crew Chiefs and Inspectors will not be included in these rules since they bid for jobs on a seniority basis.
  
  (2) Employees scheduled on shifts that start during the last hour of Sunday (continuing into Monday) are not to be counted as Sunday workers in the application of these rules. Employees scheduled on shifts that start during the last hour of Friday (continuing into Saturday) are to be counted as Saturday workers for the purpose of the application of these rules only.
  
  (3) An employee may bid by seniority within his work unit for a five-day work schedule that includes both Saturday and Sunday or one that includes a Saturday or a Sunday.
  
  (4) If insufficient number of employees bid, the Company may assign employees to such a work schedule on the basis of inverse seniority within a work unit.
  
  (5) The Company will not establish five-day work schedules that include Saturday and Sunday work for employees totaling more than one-seventh of the employees subject to these rules. 28
  
  (6) The Company will not establish five-day work schedules that include a Saturday for more than one-seventh of the employees subject to these rules and will not establish five-day work schedules that include a Sunday for more than one-seventh of this same total number.
  
  (7) Employees who work a schedule that includes just Saturday (one-seventh) or Sunday (one-seventh) will rotate so as to share being off on a Saturday or a Sunday during the week, unless fixed days off have been established pursuant to Article 3(f) of this Agreement.
  
  (8) The Company will continue to make every reasonable effort to arrange work schedules so that, whenever practicable, days off will be Saturday and Sunday.
  
  (9) Upon request of the Local Union President, the Company will provide the Union with a listing of the total number of employees at the base, excluding Line Service, showing those among this group who are regularly scheduled to work both Saturday and Sunday or just Saturday or Sunday.
  
  
  The Company will determine the available work schedules as appropriate for bases, stations, shops, or work units, as designated by the Company. Work schedules may be 5/8’s, 4/10’s, or another schedule up to twelve (12) hours

Read the final sentance of 3 (a) discussions must take place so your 1/7th point on your ad is a lie....

• No guarantee of future work at TULE (Tulsa Maintenance & Engineering Center) + 35 percent outsourcing of current work.
  
  I dont see anywhere in the agreement that the work must remain in Tulsa. Hello DWH

Don't really see where you come of with this claim that Tulsa will not keep it's work, besides DWH doesn't have equal staffing as Tulsa no Machine Process or most importantly no Plating capabilites nor will they most likely never have due to Texas enviromental laws....So I would say your point here within the ad is a lie...

• Overtime (job continuation) of up to three hours as determined by management.
• Yet to be defined "peak base visits" allowed to be 100 percent outsource.( More lies by the ad, there are provisions in place to address this issue, the company cannot rely on a manpower shortage if they have failed to reasonably anticipate headcount requirements....)
• Cabin work permanently converted from AMR (licensed aircraft maintenance technician) to OSM (unlicensed overhaul support mechanic) - minus $10 per hour. (More BS from the ad and its supporters at LBO2 show me ther permanent conversion, OSM still is confined to semi-skilled work so the AMT will still be required in the cabin...)
• Pension frozen. Retiree medical (insurance) and sixth week of vacation eliminated."--Pension is well known, as is retiree medical.

Like I said before lies, more lies, and damn lies....just my spiel

 

[TWU informer]

Like I said before lies, more lies, and damn lies....just my spiel

That sure is alot of twisting, bending, and imagination to make something a Lie in your own mind.

Besides I have seen more folks lose their jobs to company rule violations, violations of the PPC and ACP than any who may have lost their jobs in any other fashion

This has to rank up there as the biggest twist of crap you have fabricated. Do you count job lost via attrition as meaningful loss?
The headcount has dwindled by more than 7000 in the last 9 years. You guys team up with the Chambers of Commmerce about saving jobs for the community, and then dsiregard the attrition loss that will take place.

You are talking about saving an individual and we are talking about saving the union job for the next guy.

Who's side are you on anyway?

 

[High Speed Steel]

That sure is alot of twisting, bending, and imagination to make something a Lie in your own mind.

[/color][/u]

This has to rank up there as the biggest twist of crap you have fabricated. Do you count job lost via attrition as meaningful loss?
The headcount has dwindled by more than 7000 in the last 9 years. You guys team up with the Chambers of Commmerce about saving jobs for the community, and then dsiregard the attrition loss that will take place.

You are talking about saving an individual and we are talking about saving the union job for the next guy.

Who's side are you on anyway?

You can't baffle me with your bullshet Informer, you wanting to save the union job for the next guy?....lmao

How many times have you claimed headcount is to heavy Informer.....You really make me laugh

 

[skydrol]

The lame language is a issue you can try to justify it all you want however it has huge holes everywhere. How about explaining what exactally discussions must take place mean? There is no defining wording sayin anything about resolution just it needs to be talked about obviously written by the companies lawyer. Shameful embarrassing and downright discusting coming from a so called labor union for building "Families" that there is funny.

 

[Tex-Mech]

Like I said before lies, more lies, and damn lies....just my spiel

Must be difficult knowing you are wrong.

Let's try this again on the cabin work.

This will confirm our understanding reached during the negotiations leading up to the agreement signed on DOS.

In recognition of the need to competitively compete in a global market, the parties have agreed to modify the work scope for the classification of Overhaul Support Mechanic (OSM). The expanded scope will allow the utilization of the OSM Classification to accomplish cabin related work on aircraft in maintenance classified as Main Base Visit (MBV), Heavy C and Light C Check work or their equivalent.

OSM’s assigned to cabin work will perform semi-skilled to moderately complex work in the cabin of the aircraft. Such work will include but not be limited to minor structure repairs, wet fiberglass lay-ups, cabin, lavatory, galley and seat removal and repair, floorboard removal and installation, and sidewall and ceiling panel removal, repair and installation.

In recognition of this expanded job scope, the Company will modify the Qualification Administration Manual (QAM) to provide OSM’s assigned to cabin work with credited experience for advancement to the classification of AMT

 

[High Speed Steel]

Must be difficult knowing you are wrong.

Let's try this again on the cabin work.

Looks to be limited primaraly to semi-skilled work only. I'm sure there will be plenty of work for the AMT in the cabin after this is voted in. Besides, it looks to be a stepping stone for the OSM to get credit to become an AMT so its good for the profession. Have the lower classes learn the whole complexity of the aircraft, starting with the semi-skilled work and advancing from there. So in the future we will have better more knowledgable well rounded mechanics maintaining our birds....

 

[Bob Owens]

I think that some missed something;
No more than 15% of line maintenance will be outsourced.
How far are they from that now?
So its not 15% of maintenance spend its 15% of line maintenance. So lets say that Line Maint makes up 30% of the total maintenance spend, which includes materials and parts, but not facilities, that means that its 15% of 30% thats comes out to 4.5%, so the outsourcing would mainly come from OH. If they maxed out their Line maint they could still outsource 30% plus whatever they change it to if they dump Taesl.

LOA 1.4 says we will work the aircraft, it doesnt say we will Ovehaul them. If we do the Line Maint they have satisfied the agreement, just like the way they satify station staffing by putting T-II in many stations.

"Discussions" are not "negotiations".

Do they do plating in AFW? How many guys in Tulsa do plating?

Do the math. The overwhelming majority of the outsourcing would be coming from OH. Since the line is capped at 15% of Line maint, not total spend it means that the line maint portion is much less than 15% of total spend, even if Line Maint made up 40% of total spend then of the 35% , 6% could be from the line and 29% of total spend from OH. So if they max out and outsource 15% of line maint then they could outsource 48% of OH, if they keep the plating shop and the other high dollar stuff they could easily get rid of more than 50% of the workers.

 

[iluvaa]

Looks to be limited primaraly to semi-skilled work only. I'm sure there will be plenty of work for the AMT in the cabin after this is voted in. Besides, it looks to be a stepping stone for the OSM to get credit to become an AMT so its good for the profession. Have the lower classes learn the whole complexity of the aircraft, starting with the semi-skilled work and advancing from there. So in the future we will have better more knowledgable well rounded mechanics maintaining our birds....

I am an A&P ahole I don't need any stepping stones

 

[AA89]

The higher seniority OSMs bumping into an AMT slot after BK will be interesting enough. Brilliant idea.

 

[Mr Red]

Looks to be limited primaraly to semi-skilled work only. I'm sure there will be plenty of work for the AMT in the cabin after this is voted in. Besides, it looks to be a stepping stone for the OSM to get credit to become an AMT so its good for the profession. Have the lower classes learn the whole complexity of the aircraft, starting with the semi-skilled work and advancing from there. So in the future we will have better more knowledgable well rounded mechanics maintaining our birds....

Sounds like LOW PAID, UNLICENCED WORK to everyone else.

 

[jacfrost]

Moderately complex? Where exactly is the line between MODERATELY COMPLEX AND SEMI SKILLED?

 

[iluvaa]

Moderately complex? Where exactly is the line between MODERATELY COMPLEX AND SEMI SKILLED?

Where ever management wants it to be language sucks so bad