M&R LBO2 Vote Predictions

[High Speed Steel]

http://www.tulsaworl...E1_Anewsp307329

I can't believe that John Hewitt would have the nerve to say the ad was a lie. His mind must be clouded by the thought of an international job. He says 5 of the 8 bullet points are "misleading" or "outright lies." Which ones are the lies? Because I've read the ad and the proposal and I see no lies.

What I would like to see is someone who was in negotiations claim that all 8 bullet points are "actual and factual" and offer proof to back it up. I looked at the ad and it is misleading and has outright lies....

 

[TWU informer]

What I would like to see is someone who was in negotiations claim that all 8 bullet points are "actual and factual" and offer proof to back it up. I looked at the ad and it is misleading and has outright lies....

If YOU looked at the ad, claim outright lies, then why do you need someone else to counter?
You are claming they are lies, but then want to somone else to prove they are not.

HOW ABOUT YOU PROVE YOUR POSTITION?
Just spell out which ones you view as outright lies, and let the discussion begin.

You make a claim of lies, but then fail to outline which ones and why....WTF?

IT IS EASY TO CLAIM they are lies, but obviously none of you can prove they are lies.
So what the hell, is it just hearsay that they "might" be lies, or are they lies?

Hewitt Quote:
"What they fail to mention is what happens if the 'no' votes prevail," Hewitt said.

Well why didn't he spell out WHAT WOULD HAPPEN if the "No" voted prevail?
It is like inuendo without any facts. Or better yet, just simple statements of FEAR!

 

[High Speed Steel]

Just took a quick look at the LBO2 website noted within the Tulsa World news article about the ad, on the home page of that site appears the bullet point content of the ad, seems the hostess of the LBO2 site must be a liar too.....They lie to the membership in the paper then encourage them to visit a website full of more misleading information...Wow, I'm so impressed

 

[TWU informer]

Just took a quick look at the LBO2 website noted within the Tulsa World news article about the ad, on the home page of that site appears the bullet point content of the ad, seems the hostess of the LBO2 site must be a liar too.....They lie to the membership in the paper then encourage them to visit a website full of more misleading information...Wow, I'm so impressed

What exactly is a LIE? You make the claim again, but leave us all wondering which and what are lies?

 

[BigMac]

I'm not giving in but I hope I'm wrong in thinking 03' dejavu. Got that same feeling. I voted NO then too and it was forced thru. S.O.S.

 

[Tulsamechanic9]

I am voting Yes and I think it will pass because it is better that the last offer and Abrogation will cost us even more money, I think it will be close probably around 55% but doesn't matter how close it is just as long as it passes, I have a new family and can't afford any interruptions just my particular position, I realize we are all in different situations and must do what is right for our family.

I wish the vote was over so we would know one way or the other, not knowing is stressful, to be honest i'm looking forward to 6 years of no stress so I can enjoy my family without worrying about losing everything over a very small chance of getting a little more.

 

[Bob Owens]

What I would like to see is someone who was in negotiations claim that all 8 bullet points are "actual and factual" and offer proof to back it up. I looked at the ad and it is misleading and has outright lies....

I read the ad, didnt see anything misleading or what I could say is a lie. Tell me specifically which points you think are misleading, and how, (could just be your ability to comprehend after all) and which are 'outright lies' and I'll do my best.

 

[Buck]

I am voting Yes and I think it will pass because it is better that the last offer and Abrogation will cost us even more money, I think it will be close probably around 55% but doesn't matter how close it is just as long as it passes, I have a new family and can't afford any interruptions just my particular position, I realize we are all in different situations and must do what is right for our family.

and what would the effect be if this is voted down in your case?

 

[comatose]

I am voting Yes and I think it will pass because it is better that the last offer and Abrogation will cost us even more money, I think it will be close probably around 55% but doesn't matter how close it is just as long as it passes, I have a new family and can't afford any interruptions just my particular position, I realize we are all in different situations and must do what is right for our family.

If I voted yes(which is not the case) my family would ask me why would I

vote away system protection voluntarily. Why I would just give up without

a fight. If you think you're going to get anything without a fight you're wrong.

But, it's not really about getting it's about giving up. I will never give up.

The giving is gone.

 

[Tex-Mech]

What I would like to see is someone who was in negotiations claim that all 8 bullet points are "actual and factual" and offer proof to back it up. I looked at the ad and it is misleading and has outright lies....

I'll Bite

• No job security. ... There is no guarantee that you will have a job by voting for this offer.--Article 42 is gone.
  
  ARTICLE 42 – JOB SECURITY
  
  ARTICLE 42: INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK

• RIF (reductions in force), overtime, field trip rules and gain share to be written after you vote.
  
  ATTACHMENT 6.1 – AGREEMENT TO ESTABLISH OVERTIME RULES
  Attachment 4.3- Process Improvement - Line Employee Gain Sharing Plan TBD
  ATTACHMENT 26.1 FIELD TRIP GUIDELINES TBD
• 1/7 "weekends off" rule eliminated without alternative options discussed.
  
  The following rules will apply to the Tulsa, AFW and MCI Maintenance Bases employees, excluding Line Maintenance at Tulsa, and apply only with reference to the assignment of employees to work schedules that include Saturday and/or Sunday.
  
  (1) Crew Chiefs and Inspectors will not be included in these rules since they bid for jobs on a seniority basis.
  
  (2) Employees scheduled on shifts that start during the last hour of Sunday (continuing into Monday) are not to be counted as Sunday workers in the application of these rules. Employees scheduled on shifts that start during the last hour of Friday (continuing into Saturday) are to be counted as Saturday workers for the purpose of the application of these rules only.
  
  (3) An employee may bid by seniority within his work unit for a five-day work schedule that includes both Saturday and Sunday or one that includes a Saturday or a Sunday.
  
  (4) If insufficient number of employees bid, the Company may assign employees to such a work schedule on the basis of inverse seniority within a work unit.
  
  (5) The Company will not establish five-day work schedules that include Saturday and Sunday work for employees totaling more than one-seventh of the employees subject to these rules. 28
  
  (6) The Company will not establish five-day work schedules that include a Saturday for more than one-seventh of the employees subject to these rules and will not establish five-day work schedules that include a Sunday for more than one-seventh of this same total number.
  
  (7) Employees who work a schedule that includes just Saturday (one-seventh) or Sunday (one-seventh) will rotate so as to share being off on a Saturday or a Sunday during the week, unless fixed days off have been established pursuant to Article 3(f) of this Agreement.
  
  (8) The Company will continue to make every reasonable effort to arrange work schedules so that, whenever practicable, days off will be Saturday and Sunday.
  
  (9) Upon request of the Local Union President, the Company will provide the Union with a listing of the total number of employees at the base, excluding Line Service, showing those among this group who are regularly scheduled to work both Saturday and Sunday or just Saturday or Sunday.
  
  
  The Company will determine the available work schedules as appropriate for bases, stations, shops, or work units, as designated by the Company. Work schedules may be 5/8’s, 4/10’s, or another schedule up to twelve (12) hours
• No guarantee of future work at TULE (Tulsa Maintenance & Engineering Center) + 35 percent outsourcing of current work.
  
  

  To allow the company certain flexibility in outsourcing Aircraft-related Maintenance, the company and the Union have agreed to establish limits on the amount of work the company may outsource, including the work that is currently outsourced. "Aircraft-related Maintenance" shall be defined as work involving the maintenance, repair, servicing, overhaul, inspection or modification of engines, components or aircraft. The Company and the Union agree to limit the percentage of all outsourced Aircraft-related Maintenance to not exceed 35%, subject to exclusions or modifications described elsewhere in this agreement. Further, the parties also agree that no more than 15% of Line Maintenance work will be contracted out.

  I dont see anywhere in the agreement that the work must remain in Tulsa. Hello DWH
• Overtime (job continuation) of up to three hours as determined by management.
  

  Nothing in this Agreement prevents the Company from requesting an employee to voluntarily stay past the end of his scheduled shift for the purposes of job continuity. Such holdover cannot exceed three (3) hours. In the event more than three (3) hours is required, the Company will utilize the procedures described in 6 above. For the first 30 minutes, an employee would be paid for time worked. If the assignment extends past 30 minutes but less than an hour, the employee will be paid 1 hour. After hour 1 through hour 3, the employee will be paid for time worked.

• Yet to be defined "peak base visits" allowed to be 100 percent outsourced.
  

  The percentage set forth in paragraph (e) above may be exceeded in the event: (i) the Company’s then-present employees do not have the normal time and/or skills to perform the work (provided that the manpower shortage is not a result of the Company’s failure to reasonably anticipate and address its headcount requirements); or (ii) the Company’s equipment or facilities are insufficient or are being fully utilized at the time the Company contracts out the work; Work which is contracted out and which is characterized by (i) or (ii) of this paragraph is excluded from the outsourcing calculation.

  
  

  It is the company’s current plan to contract out additional Base work, including the following:
  Peak Base Visits regardless of fleet or engine type; for example, where a full check line cannot be supported
  The parties agree that nothing in Article I or in this letter prevents the company from contracting out work currently or previously performed in house, subject to the other restrictions of this agreement.
  In the event the Company decides to contract out work in addition to that listed on the previous page it may do so if (1) the additional work does not result in outsourcing above the percentage cap on outsourcing stated in Article 1(e) or (2) the Company’s then-present employees do not have the normal time and/or skills to perform the work

• Cabin work permanently converted from AMR (licensed aircraft maintenance technician) to OSM (unlicensed overhaul support mechanic) - minus $10 per hour.
  

  ATTACHMENT 11.6 UTILIZATION OF OSM CLASSIFICATION IN DOCK OPERATIONS
  OSM wage-$22.68 AMT wage--$33.02 You are right they lied by not saying it was more than $10/hr

• Pension frozen. Retiree medical (insurance) and sixth week of vacation eliminated."--Pension is well known, as is retiree medical.
  

  30 years and over
  
  Twenty-four (24) hours
  
  Two hundred forty (240) hours

 

[Tex-Mech]

I am voting Yes and I think it will pass because it is better that the last offer and Abrogation will cost us even more money, I think it will be close probably around 55% but doesn't matter how close it is just as long as it passes, I have a new family and can't afford any interruptions just my particular position, I realize we are all in different situations and must do what is right for our family.

Why are you in a union then? With a union job, we expect interruptions every few years in the form of strikes or likewise in order to gain better benefits and wages. It is not about you when you are in a union, it is about us.

 

[aapitbull]

I see the yes men claim someone is lying please post the lie and the language that makes it a lie and then we will answer your concerns. The first one is fact they are doing away with system protection if they intend on keeping 7000 of us why not give that group system protection, there is no cost in it if you truly intend to do that work.The company has gone to the line and told the line Mechanic's to vote for this and they will get rid of most of overhaul and we will be the majority, the fact is they want to get rid of as many of us as they can both Line and Overhaul we must stand together and get system protections restored for as many as we can if we do not we are all screwed it does not matter where you work.

There are no guarantees in life and all we can do is fight and see what happens surrender now and you are done!

 

[Mr Red]

I am voting Yes and I think it will pass because it is better that the last offer and Abrogation will cost us even more money, I think it will be close probably around 55% but doesn't matter how close it is just as long as it passes, I have a new family and can't afford any interruptions just my particular position, I realize we are all in different situations and must do what is right for our family.

I wish the vote was over so we would know one way or the other, not knowing is stressful, to be honest i'm looking forward to 6 years of no stress so I can enjoy my family without worrying about losing everything over a very small chance of getting a little more.

IDIOT !

 

[Buster CRC]

Tulsamechanic9 sounds like another 514 officer's alias.

And if you think the next 6 years will be stress free think again. If you have a family like you say you will be stressed out everytime they get sick just trying to meet the deductibles.

 

[Crapdog]

We can not vote yes with a pending merger. It would be a disaster for all.