M&R LBO2 Vote Predictions

[whatajoke]

Vote yes sign handed out after the meeting today made in the sign shop.
Being a NO voter I am very disappointed that the local would allow that.

 

[Buster CRC]

Vote yes sign handed out after the meeting today made in the sign shop.
Being a NO voter I am very disappointed that the local would allow that.

I'm with ya..very disappointed but then I've come to expect it from this current 514 administrator. I thought I would never say this but I sure miss Ed Wilson.

 

[Buck]

Our unions throw money at the Democratic party all the time. What have they done in return? Mr. Obama (who I did vote for) had both the house and senate at one point in his term. The RLA and BK laws could have been changed to make them more unbiased toward big business but that didn't happen. They took our money and did nothing to help us. That tells me they don't need our money so let's not give it to them. I would love to see everyone take a week off and let the airlines rot. Let's see all the execs threaten to fire all of us if we don't go back to work. Of Course Delta mechanics would still go to work like the good non-union people they are, but their pilots are union and they would stay out. The laws favor the airlines and the people in Washington don't want to help us so we must help ourselves. Think of what would happen. Airline workers would then be treated with RESPECT from their management people. Even AA would have to eat crow. Ah but that is a pipe dream. Many folks just in Tulsa would refuse to stay out.
The bottom line is there are lots of lousy jobs out there with lousy to zero benefits, and not many with good pay and benefits. This used to be one of those. Why don't you yes voters leave and get one of those other jobs and leave us no voters the chance to keep what little pay and benefits that we have left and a chance to get something back. We could then toss the TWU out too and things would get better right away. Vote No or Go!!!!

Do they Delta Mechanics want to be unionized?

 

[700UW]

What you propose is illegal and will cost the unions billions and there is no way in hades that you could get that accomplished, its a fantasy beyond delusional.

How did that work out for PATCO?

 

[OldGuy@AA]

What you propose is illegal and will cost the unions billions and there is no way in hades that you could get that accomplished, its a fantasy beyond delusional.

How did that work out for PATCO?

I'm sure the Torries told the Colonists that there was no way they could beat the Great Britain Military power. They did it. Think about it. Could every airline worker in America be fired like Patco? Not on your life. Washington would have to do something to get everyone back to work. With your willingness to give up so easily you would fit in well in France. haha

 

[Bob Owens]

Ah once again you have to call names cause you cant debate?

You can only vote how you feel, you are in no position of power when the laws are stacked against you.

I voted no four times on our concessionary cbas, and the members decided, and I walked on to greener pastures as I would not work under the Chapter 11 abrogation CBA.

Does it makes you feel like a big man when you call others names when they point out that a strike didnt solve the issues at NW?

And the courts have ruled you cant strike upon an abrogation.

So whats your grand plan?

The courts also ruled that slaves were property, they ruled that blacks could be forced to the back of the bus and use seperate 9but supposedly equal) facilities.

Tell the rest of the story, that the law, not the judges who spin things for their corporate benefactors , says that contracts under the RLA can not be abrogated in C-11 (Sect 1167) and that all other workers are allowed to strike if their contracts are abrogated and that the labor movement allowed this gross inustice to go unchalleneged.

 

[700UW]

And why dont you tell the truth about section 1167, I know Sharon told you, she told you it only applies to the railroads, and how many years was slavery legal?

How long would it take for this to go to the Supreme Court?

http://www.nysb.uscourts.gov/opinions/ash/153444_24_opinion.pdf

 

[Overspeed]

Thats just it, if AA says they are refusing to talk then the NMB has to release us. So they will never say they are unwilling to talk unless they are ready to take us on as far as self help. They will always agree to meet, then not agree to anything and have Don make sure that things do not get heated in negotiations so the charade can continue.

If AA is facing a strike they will talk. This isnt 1995, they dont have thousands of mechanics out there in training to work on our aircraft, the planes arent flying half full and the MROs are booked up. When it comes to a showdaown we are in a better spot than we've been in many many years, the biggest threat is our own fears.

I think you've lost track of your stories Bob.

There is a mechanic shortage, but like you said, AA is renewing the fleet with aircraft that need less maintenance and they have some years before their first HC. 787 is 12 years after delivery and 50% less maintenance MHs than the 767 MRB. So who cares if the MROs are booked up, the 757, 767-200s, and the MD80's are desert bound and on HC required.

We have a BK that isn't finished and a possible merger coming up. The NMB is not going to need any nudging from Don V even if he could. your foil hat is on too tight. Now Don controls the Committee and has influence over the NMB process. Okay...

So if you "know" we won't get released due to AA stalling, the weak RLA language, the NMB trying to keep us at the table, and big bad Don V using his Svengali powers why are you recommending a no vote? We are doomed to years more of no raise and massive job loss abrogation or TA approved except with the TA approved we get a raise and Early Out money for us that stay on. Your plan results in reading a few more years of Airline Forum posts of you, Chuck, Odie, Informer, Buck, Ken, etc... complain about how everyone is against you while we see our income decrease even faster with COLA rising each year.

Like Frank Szabo stated on this blog, the process is heavily against labor succeeding in this current environment and for the foreseeable future. Time to admit you misunderstood the process and miscalculated AA's willingness and ability to go to BK. It's okay Bob, to err is human. Maybe you can file an ASAP with NMB and just have to do RLA Section 6 recurrent training.

 

[Bob Owens]

My Grand Plan would include every airline employee forming a Non-Political Coalition and on a given day shutting the transportation system down regardless of the law.

The Middle Class cannot sit back and abide by the laws, if money is going to control the law makers.

If they wish to remove our influence from law making, then we need to stop abiding by the laws.

Currently all we have are money gamers, and political campaigners in the AFL-CIO that worsen the problem by acting out the same worthless path to a solution.
You Industrial Unionist are too damn busy bashing those that don't see eye to eye with the proven failures and therefore keep playing the same old tired losing battle, using the same old tired rules and laws.

Grow a set and do something. Your middle class is clamoring for relief, but that is not heard, and will not be heard until every man, woman, and child is dependent on the socialist government your politics keeps advocating. That will be too damn late!

Agree with everything except about the jab at industrial Unionists, and the Socialist Goverenemnt remark, the blame goes across the whole movement and we are moving towards facism, wher risk has been socialized while the reward remians privatized for the select few and the rest are left to fend for themselves from the crumbs the elite leaves behind.

Try reading "When Genious Failed, about the LTCM collapse and how the rich insisted that we bail them out, privatize the profits and socialize the risk.

 

[Overspeed]

You know how it works yet you are asking Informer
to explain it to you.

"Making" the company talk to you is not like you
trying to make your neighbor talk to you.

Any other questions you know the answer for that
you need explaining?

And what is your solution? Accept $3,500 in hush money from the ARSA and AA? Are we backing AMFA? AMP? AMFA again? What is it oh master of flip flopping? You have little integrity or right to bad mouth when you accept money from those who seek to destroy the very craft you claim to be fighting for. $3,000 from AA? You drank from the same black chalice of greed.

Face it Ken. You have no solution either other than to berate others that have alternative opinions.

Fact is the vote no strategy has not worked. We are over five years after starting negotiations and your heroes JR, Gary, Schiable, Mishak, Bob, Chuck, and the others have not delivered results. You can blame the TWU, NMB, RLA, and AA but the fact remains, your paycheck has not increased and retro pay? Do you think that's coming? No.

Stick to what you do best. Promote AMT competitions and fund raisers for bronze busts.

 

[Bob Owens]

I think you've lost track of your stories Bob.

There is a mechanic shortage, but like you said, AA is renewing the fleet with aircraft that need less maintenance and they have some years before their first HC. 787 is 12 years after delivery and 50% less maintenance MHs than the 767 MRB. So who cares if the MROs are booked up, the 757, 767-200s, and the MD80's are desert bound and on HC required.

We have a BK that isn't finished and a possible merger coming up. The NMB is not going to need any nudging from Don V even if he could. your foil hat is on too tight. Now Don controls the Committee and has influence over the NMB process. Okay...

So if you "know" we won't get released due to AA stalling, the weak RLA language, the NMB trying to keep us at the table, and big bad Don V using his Svengali powers why are you recommending a no vote? We are doomed to years more of no raise and massive job loss abrogation or TA approved except with the TA approved we get a raise and Early Out money for us that stay on. Your plan results in reading a few more years of Airline Forum posts of you, Chuck, Odie, Informer, Buck, Ken, etc... complain about how everyone is against you while we see our income decrease even faster with COLA rising each year.

Like Frank Szabo stated on this blog, the process is heavily against labor succeeding in this current environment and for the foreseeable future. Time to admit you misunderstood the process and miscalculated AA's willingness and ability to go to BK. It's okay Bob, to err is human. Maybe you can file an ASAP with NMB and just have to do RLA Section 6 recurrent training.

Not at all, life is complicated and sometimes things seem to contradict.
Yes there is a shortage of mechanics, and it affects the industry as a whole, so just because theres a shortage on an industry wide basis it doesnt preclude any carrier from having a surplus.The whole thing here is timing, right now AA does not have a surpluss of mechanics and they really dont have anyplace to send the MD-80s and 757s, and it will take time before they get replacements. they cant get rid of those aircraft and wait till they get new ones so they need who they have until they do.

As far as Don and the NMB who does the NMB recognize as the authority from the union, the negotiating committee or the International, hint, the International, the Negotiating committee has no leagl standing. So yes they control what gets put to the NMB.
We wont get released if we dont ask, as far as a srtrike 30 days later I doubt it would happen because AA conrtols 18% of the market. Between AA, UA and Delta they control 68% of the traffic, if AA merges with USAIR it would be around 77%. If the APA strike constituted a transportation emergency in 1997 when the industry was much more spread out its extremely likely that any of the big three would be one now.

It post like this that tell us why you hide behind an alias.

 

[Bob Owens]

And why dont you tell the truth about section 1167, I know Sharon told you, she told you it only applies to the railroads, and how many years was slavery legal?

How long would it take for this to go to the Supreme Court?

http://www.nysb.usco..._24_opinion.pdf

A judge determined that, the statute didnt, When Lorenzo used c-11 to void out the pilots contract the courts let them strike, then a different Judge make a different ruling with NWA.

How long would it take? Well if we followed Informers suggestion probably not long at all.

 

[Mr Red]

And what is your solution? Accept $3,500 in hush money from the ARSA and AA? Are we backing AMFA? AMP? AMFA again? What is it oh master of flip flopping? You have little integrity or right to bad mouth when you accept money from those who seek to destroy the very craft you claim to be fighting for. $3,000 from AA? You drank from the same black chalice of greed.

Face it Ken. You have no solution either other than to berate others that have alternative opinions.

Fact is the vote no strategy has not worked. We are over five years after starting negotiations and your heroes JR, Gary, Schiable, Mishak, Bob, Chuck, and the others have not delivered results. You can blame the TWU, NMB, RLA, and AA but the fact remains, your paycheck has not increased and retro pay? Do you think that's coming? No.

Stick to what you do best. Promote AMT competitions and fund raisers for bronze busts.

TWU leadership has lead us to DEAD LAST IN PAY,BENEFITS AND WORK RULES.A yes vote ensures their is nothing left!I would rather fight the RAPIST to the death !

 

[700UW]

Ah you know better than what you just posted?

There was NO Section 1113 when Lorenzo voided the union contracts, which also voided there being a union.

CBAs were treated like every other contract, Lorenzo's actions prompted Section 1113 and 1114 to be made into law.

You know all this Bob, come on, your hiding stuff and trying to deflect the reality.

And the IAM all ready struck before the CBA was voided, different laws then there are now, and you know this, come on.

 

[Overspeed]

TWU leadership has lead us to DEAD LAST IN PAY,BENEFITS AND WORK RULES.A yes vote ensures their is nothing left!I would rather fight the RAPIST to the death !

A no vote ensures that there will be 4,000 or more laid off and you will still not get a raise for two to three years.